Joe the Plumber

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 21 - 40 of total 274 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 16, 2008 - 02:42pm PT

Yesterday on the South Buttress of Whitehorse:

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Oct 16, 2008 - 02:45pm PT

Seemes to me the last president to promise no new taxes and then raise them was a Republican. Still, he was a better president than his son.

As for making changes to promises, I can pretty much guarantee that neither Obama or McCain will do exactly what they have promised during the campaign. Circumstances will dictate change. And the last thing I'd want is another idiot that is so proud or delusional as to ignore reality and refuse to change.

poop_tube

Big Wall climber

33° 45' N 117° 52' W

Oct 16, 2008 - 02:46pm PT

I'm thinking Williamson North Ridge before there is avalanch danger

poop_tube

Big Wall climber

33° 45' N 117° 52' W

Oct 16, 2008 - 02:55pm PT

IT'S TEQUILLA MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

You're a tequilla kinda guy.

bookworm

Social climber

Falls Church, VA

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:04pm PT

"Paying your taxes is not "punishment", it is your fricking civic duty."

well, personally, i believe income tax is evil...like kicking a dog for barking...humans work

and i didn't call for no taxes; i just pointed out that forcing successful people to pay higher taxes is punishing success...i'd prefer a consumption tax but admit we're too far gone for that...so i favor a flat tax rate...everybody (with exceptions for the poor) pays 20% (+/-)...that way, joe plumber who makes $50k gives the government 10k dr. plumber who makes 200k gives the government 40k...the doc makes 4 times as much as the plumber and gives 4 times as much to the government...that's truly fair

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:07pm PT

Chiloe, nice picture! I'll try to take some at the apple festival this weekend - usually quite colourful.

As for Joe the "plumber", too funny.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp

poop_tube

Big Wall climber

33° 45' N 117° 52' W

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:11pm PT

If I peel off right now will that knifeblade below me hold? Probably, but the block I hammered it in is loose. It seems to be frozen on the wall pretty well I don't think it'll break off. But the better question is if I will smack that ledge before the rope catches me. This wind and spindrift is making it hard to keep my balance at this stance.

Dick_Lugar

Trad climber

Indiana (the other Mideast)

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:12pm PT

Et tu HHDJ? Interesting angle, I've noticed a significant change in your positions of late...is it sarcasm at its "jest" or something much deeper?

I don't think Joe needs a license if an employee under a licensed employer.

I can see where the rich get a little jaded about taxes. 33% now and 39% under Obama...I've never given it much thought since I've never broke $50K. It is a boatload of money any way you slice it!

EDIT: Poop_Tube, stay on task here...did you take your ridalin yet today! ;)

Dick_Lugar

Trad climber

Indiana (the other Mideast)

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:24pm PT

Looks like the GOP vetted Joe about as much as Palin!

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:29pm PT

If Joe is self employed,Joe is paying 15.3 % Social Security and Medicare/aid on top of his tax rate.

So let's see,you make 250,000,pay the 15% on the first hundred,or 15K,plus 39 % income tax,or maybe 96,000 in income tax for a total around 110,000 in taxation on 250,000K.That's before state income tax.

I'd love to see the look on some of you "tax the rich" peoples faces if they took those percentages from you just once.

Just once.

UncleDoug

Social climber

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:32pm PT

Tomcat,

What about all of the deductions he can claim being self-employed?
If he is not working the system, he deserves to pay that amount.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:34pm PT

Here's how CNN's fact check breaks it down:

The bottom line: McCain's claim only works by using an overly broad definition of
what counts as a "small business" - and even with that definition, fewer than 2%
of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase. For those who
are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/index.htm?cnn=yes

graniteclimber

Trad climber

Nowhere

Oct 16, 2008 - 03:46pm PT

"plus 39 % income tax,or maybe 96,000 in income tax"

The people who are most critical of the income tax struture are usually those without a very good understanding of it.

Income tax brackets are marginal. So someone who is in the 39% bracket will be paying for less than 39% of his income in taxes.

Obama plans to implement a 39% bracket starting at $250,000. What this means is that ONLY the amount owed above $250,000 would be taxed at 39%, and all the rest would be subject to the applicable lower tax brackets.

So if you make $250,001, only that extra one dollar would be taxed at 39%.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Oct 16, 2008 - 04:09pm PT

Your marginal tax rate statement is correct Granite.Of course the 250k is an arbitrary point. So I assume you'll admit that above that you are forking 39% back to the government regardless.And your net effective rate below that is going to be around 30.

Did you ever pay 30% of your income as tax?You should try it.

Obama's plan is the same idea the Dems trot out every election,buying votes with a promise to redistribute wealth.

Chris Roderick

climber

Oct 16, 2008 - 04:44pm PT

Joe Plumber and Americans in general live in a dream world when it comes to money. Since it's considered morally evil to be poor and the rich are God's chosen people, they're always under this huge pressure to live beyond their means. Like Kurt Vonnegut said in "Slaughterhouse Five", they live under this delusion that it's easy to make money.

If you asked 1000 young people today how many of them think they'll be millionaires in 20 years, probably 300 will reply in the affirmative while maybe 10 will actually make it.

graniteclimber

Trad climber

Nowhere

Oct 16, 2008 - 05:42pm PT

"Your marginal tax rate statement is correct Granite.Of course the 250k is an arbitrary point. So I assume you'll admit that above that you are forking 39% back to the government regardless.And your net effective rate below that is going to be around 30."

The 250K bracket wouldn't be any more arbitrary then any of the exiting brackets.

On the first $250,000 (if filing single, it would be higher if you are filing together with a spouse)you make you would paying the same or less in Federal taxs under Obama's plan as you do currently. But, any amount above that would be taxed at 39%.

Assuming you make $350,000 a year, then with the new 39% bracket you would be paying $2,000 more a year in taxes than you do right now. Hardly a major increase.

Edit: Joe the Plumber makes less than $250,000 per year and would be getting a tax cut under Obama. Even if he is able to purchase that business he wants to, he would not face a tax increase. He was confusing a tax on revenues with a tax on income. His income will be the revenues minus expenses and will be less than $250,000 per year.

McCain doesnt understand this either. During the debate last night, McCain said that Joe the Plumber would not be able to hire a new employee because of the tax. The salary of the new employee would be an expense which would reduce the taxable income of the business.

Second edit: Tomcat, If you think your taxes are too high, you should see how much you'd have to pay if you are in an upper bracket and have to add the CA income tax and CA sales tax on top of your Fed. taxes. I know know what New Hampshire taxes are but they can't be as high as California's.

Dick_Lugar

Trad climber

Indiana (the other Mideast)

Oct 16, 2008 - 06:06pm PT

Thx. Granite and Tomcat for your input. You both make valid points. I just found out my earlier number of $4,000 more in taxes was way off. I just heard in a report that Joe would pay $600 more if he makes $250K (?) than McCain's plan, but under Obama's plan he'd be eligible for more expense deductions and would actually pay less than McCain's plan.

Apologies for the fuzzy math and details, but I'm sure there's enough intelligent people here that we can be more exact with more info and data regarding Joe's scenario. Bottom line is, McCain's claim that Obama's tax plan will "kill" small businesses seems to be a desperate claim.

Flashlight

climber

Oct 16, 2008 - 07:15pm PT

Why should someone pay MORE in taxes (by percentage) than someone with less income? All that does is stifle the drive to become successful. Socialism to the hilt!

Class envy/warfare has been a well-used tact by the liberals forever. Bunch of lazy bums wanting a piece of the pie but unwilling to work for it.