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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:07pm PT
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drill anything and everything. as much as possible as fast as possible. become a world leading exporter. go to alternative energy sources and make a buck back selling our oil to china and india.
even better, flood the market with oil.
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:19pm PT
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I hear that gas is two bucks a gallon in Mexico as they are an exporter of oil. Well so what. Does anyone think that they are selling sweet crude for 90 bucks a barrel? Hell no. They are selling at market prices. What they do is subsidize gas via tax on production. No solution really.
I have always, since I was a teen, wished to live off the grid. I have a half dozen books on underground houses. I tried to buy a hydo-electrical plant after a cotton mill "take over".
We can do it. Green power that supplies growth, higher standards of living, not lower. Enough power and money to provide health care, care for the elderly and the disabled. It is not magic. It is focus.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:24pm PT
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Use the coastal and alaskan oil when it cost $400 - $500 a barrel. Once our oil is gone, we'll be real slaves to whoever has it.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Everybody should read the first two pages of that linkl Be warned
Peace
Karl
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:24pm PT
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I got an idea - Let's set aside an are of the country - a nice area, that can sustain life - and let those of us who want OUT of OIL go live there. The catch? We get and may use no oil, nor petroleum-based products.
In return - No new drilling within US boundaries nor other areas the US controls.* Those of us who sacrifice consumption of oil open up what's left for those who think they cannot do without.
It would be an interesting experiment.....
* I read about Antarctica that the US "reserves the right" to claim it as ours. God help us if they ever try to force that one down the world's throats, with the underlying motive being to extract minerals.
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:27pm PT
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You got a point my man. It is hard to understand for me. I've never wanted money that bad. Yet I think there are some in power who understand. I may be wrong. I hope not. If greed has become the main factor, we are screwed. In that case I need to "focus" on getting off the grid and keeping my ammo dry. May be.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:31pm PT
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Karl, are playing the doomsday card?
Of course oil will run out. That's why you need to re-read my drill now post and mention of subsidizing our 3 big vehicle manufacturers as well as tapping into the sun, wind, and atom.
Are you paying attention?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:34pm PT
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The US fishing industry is worth about four billion dollars a year, with a catch of about twelve billion pounds annually.
Potentially it is an industry that could go on forever. Or, we kill it in forty or fifty years drillng for oil. Then we don't have a fishery or an oil industry after we tap it out.
Eaten any oil lately?
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:36pm PT
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Karl, I scanned the url you provided. Yet if we remove the transportation cost of oil, much would be available for other uses. No magic bullet for sure, alternatives exist I think.
The other day I was talking to my buddy and he said, "Even a mouse will fight if cornered". 300 million mice, fighting is a real force. We'll find a way, I hope. If not, this mouse is planing on surviving. No one want's to be the cat who tries.
ps edit, I had a cat, name Rocky, who could kick any dog's ass. he was a big tomcat who live peacefully, until fuc@ed with. I saw so many dogs running for their lives it was amazing. It finally became funny. Watch the dog walk down ther road full of himself. Then running, yelping and limping his ass away. I almost felt sorry for them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:45pm PT
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Nick, you're talking about 'potentials' and 'maybe'. You should be more concerned about Japanese over-fishing our waters. It's a fact that they are sucking our fishing industry dry. Not potential or maybe....
You're all mixed up, man.
You seem to keep shifting the arguement too. What about shale-oil and land based ANWR oil?
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:46pm PT
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Locker,
I am often dense. Do I hear you saying that we need oil to harvest the fish/food that we eat? If so, I agree. I think now that we are spending much more petro dollars on irrigation, fertilazition, tractor fuel etc. than boat fuel cost. Same point though.
What country burns it's food to drive cars?
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:48pm PT
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[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/danielledilly/TheDangersofMasterbation.jpg
[/img]
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:51pm PT
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"Karl, are playing the doomsday card?
Of course oil will run out. That's why you need to re-read my drill now post and mention of subsidizing our 3 big vehicle manufacturers as well as tapping into the sun, wind, and atom.
Are you paying attention?"
Yup, but I'm thinking you need to pay more. Problem is, we are a long, long, long, long way from replacing oil in cars. Read that link well. We drill now and we'll just run out sooner than when the big pinch comes. The big pinch is going to come before the alternatives are ready to replace oil. Let's save our desperate measures and last ditch oil for that.
How dependent on foreign oil will we be when we burn all ours?
The problem is scale. The world uses about 100 million barrels of Oil EVERY DAY! and India and China are set to burn more, not less. Even if we had an alternative ready, how long does it take to replace all the cars and trucks in the world.
Be wise, suck up all the foreign oil first, then our resource will really be worth something
peace
karl
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:54pm PT
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Locker,
I agree. I just think we can do with a lot less. Remove transportation use and we have a lot more for the rest. I also think that complex carbon, oxygen etc. compounds can be manufactured with less impact on the the planet than oil production currently has. For me, it's not so much the production as the use that bothers me.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 31, 2008 - 10:59pm PT
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The US lands nearly 12 billion pounds of fish and shellfish annually, around 4 percent of the world’s total. The US Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), the federal territory that extends 200 miles offshore, accounts for the majority of US landings. Landings from three to 200 miles offshore represent 70 percent of total landings by weight and 55 percent of industry revenue. Fish and shellfish landed from zero to three miles offshore represents slightly less than 30 percent of total volume and around 40 percent of industry value. Landings from the high seas (beyond 200 miles from shore) account for only 2 percent of industry volume and value. No foreign landings occur in the EEZ.
So, actually even though there is a very good argument to made for the Japanese overfishing the worlds oceans, most of our catch comes from our waters, where they can't fish.
It is possible to catch fish with little to no oil use, but if you don't have any fish to catch because you wasted their habitat, well, I think you see where that goes.
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 11:01pm PT
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Karl,
Ha, Ha! We become the Faud family in 2060. I wish. Really. Actually, I hope we become smarter than the Faud's in 2020 and it becomes a moot point. Not possible? If Locker is right and greed it the main focus, maybe not. If some smart leaders take charge, maybe so. Hell, we put a man on the moon with less computation than exist in you cell phone today.
If we are truely sheep, well, then I want to be wolf. Sort of. Really, I want to be a mole.
Edit, after thinking for a second, I want to be a mole with wolf's teeth.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 31, 2008 - 11:12pm PT
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This thread has totally degenerated into obscure stuff.
Karl, you're mostly right though. Maybe I misunderstood you.
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SammyLee2
Trad climber
Memphis, TN
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Jul 31, 2008 - 11:21pm PT
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Locker,
Damn straight, we are wandering off on a tangent. If I woke up (movie stuff) in a beautiful girls body, It'd be a week before I left the house and I'd be sore as hell when I did. Funny how one gender can be SO facinated with the other. I LOVE women. Rock, women, good whiskey, top three. Plentiful, green engery, well that's in the top ten. But hell, I've plenty of the the top three. Wife and money provides two!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oil rigs provide sport fishing habitat.
There are no commercial fisherys in any of the costal areas off Florida or Calif to speak of. Calif's has been dead due to overfishing for years.
The large and productive gulf fishery has coexisted with oil rigs since their inception.
What have you been smokin Nick?
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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TGT, so do decommissioned naval vessels, aircraft carriers, tanks, cars, and washing machines, that is no excuse to drill offshore.
If you want to build artificial reefs, then build artificial reefs.
If you want to drill for oil, then drill the Bakken deposit in North Dakota.
Offshore oil drilling in Cali wouldn't have any short-term relief effects, and would just be slapping a previously used band-aid on an already festering, and growing wound. Petroleum energy alternatives are the way to go for the long-term.
Remove petroleum teat from suckling mouth!
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