Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
The process was more important than the verdict. The testimony of some of the people who worked in the office was pretty amazing. It showed pretty clearly how two-faced the administration has been about leaks, and how they were more concerned with quashing criticism of them (Wilson) than running the massive war they were in the process of screwing up.
Fatty, how there nothing to "roll on" Cheney for seems preposterous. The only reason that Bush hasn't been impeached for lying under oath is because he has always been able to avoid being PUT under oath. As far as Cheney is concerned while there might or might not be enough of a legal case against him, Libby could certainly make it painfully obvious that Cheney's intent was to deceive throughout the entire process, and was certainly involved in the decision to retaliate against Wilson.
|
|
nita
climber
chico ca
|
|
I say...No Jail cell......Give them guns & a uniform, and send them to Iraq's front line.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Now Libby is a pretty smart fella. When Cheney told him to expose a CIA agent married to a problem person he clearly thought to himself, “Good god! This is the kind of thing someone running for 6th grade class president would pull.” He should have been able to explain to Cheney that the US was so far down the garden path they won’t even take notice of anything Wilson says. He did not because it was clear to him that Cheney was simply getting off on the power he thought he had. And when Cheney is on a trip, you don’t want to stand in front of him. So here is my first question. How could a smart fella not realize someone that far out of control is a danger to the people around him?
Next question. Suppose you are Putin. Plame was apparently involved in questions nucular. She would have been involved in this area for some time and might have had contact with a covert CIA plant in Russia at some time. Or you could at least claim so. Suppose you are having a problem with W and you have already selected the CIA agent. You try that agent and execute him making sure everyone knows you were able to do it because you found out Plame worked for The Company. Here is my question. If you were Putin, found you were in “a tight spot”, and had a chance to make it look like George had committed treason, would you do it?
Just a question. There are lots of pretty smart fellas around and it is useful, sometimes, to think about what may be coming down the pike.
|
|
TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
Might be Russ's best post yet - though his recent TR was pretty good.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2007 - 02:23am PT
|
re: "I say...No Jail cell......Give them guns & a uniform, and send them to Iraq's front line."
nita- this would be ok w/ me, only if all the money in their respective families (all those who are directly responsible from their armchairs) and it were split equitably among the many families of americans who have suffered deeply as a result of their service to our country in this war.
libby hasn't been thrown under the bus nearly as badly as the armed forces personel and their families have been thrown under the bus by these fukwad neocons.
|
|
nita
climber
chico ca
|
|
The thousands of vet's and there families, have a very difficult
road to maneuver.... Matt..agreed... PINCHE CABRON neocons!
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
FR:
How would you have handled it differently?
Cheers,
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
"Cheney is the only reason we haven't had another 9/11. "
Yeah right. He is the reason we are going to get handed MORE of them. In a struggle dependant on winning "hearts and minds" Cheney has helped alienate millions and millions of them and codified support against our country. Between 1992 when the first World Trade attack happened and 9/10/2001 everything looked just peachy until what do ya know.
So what exactly do you think Cheney has done besides shoot his buddy in the face that has prevented another 9/11? Created a training ground in Iraq where Al Qaida recruits can hone their skills, perfect roadside bombs and practice attacking vital infrastructure? That was a good idea. Create an atmosphere where our declared enemies see the acquisition of nuclear weapons as their only clear defense against us? Alienated the nations that we need help from the most?
Of course none of this really matters because your REAL defense is Operation Blame the Liberals where after the next one happens you'll just blame people who actually think we need to make some sacrifices, build some relationships and fix some problems instead of just blow things up and pretend its helping. The next one is coming and as far as I can tell the Bushies are just crossing their fingers and praying that it happens on someone else's watch.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
That’s OK AC. Just a different subject.
One of the most important things I ever learned in doing technical experiments was, before changing something, to ask myself what I will say when the results are not what I expect. (Would you believe most people do not do this?) Going into Iraq we might have asked, what will happen if this is not the push over we expect it to be. The answer would have been, thanks to the Shia majority, Iran is a huge winner. If we attack Saudi Arabia, what may happen if there is real resistance? Would seem to me the Saudi royal family will be out. They are pretty friendly to us. Do we really want them out? The Saudi military is already gearing up to resist any advance from Iran. Do we want to pave Iran’s way into control of yet another oil field?
As I understand it Iran now sells its oil pegged to the Euro. If all the oil fields in the ME are controlled by Iran all the countries buying oil there will no longer need dollars. That will cause a large increase in dollar liquidity abroad( too many dollars), and potentially unfortunate changes in our exchange rate. If that gets out of hand nations presently funding our debt will not continue, at least not continue exactly as they have been doing. No one can tell how this would all play out, but the possible negatives are immense. You will have to explain to me how we might benefit from attacking Saudi Arabia. I am having trouble finding a positive.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2007 - 11:27pm PT
|
...and yet another well intentioned poster tried to engage the fatguy-
question: why do you think i sometimes call it "judy"?
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Something Arlo Guthrie said in "Alice's Restaurant" protesting our Viet Nam adventure, has stuck with me. While repeatedly trying to get the audience to sing along he says, "I'm not proud.......or tired." In just five words, he captures how people need to be.
|
|
Wild Bill
climber
Ca
|
|
A procedural question:
When Nancy Pelosi is sworn in as president (ascending after W and Cheney are indicted/resign/shot in face by hunting partner hell-bent on revenge/mishap on trip to Iraq/South America), and Hilary is hand-picked as Veep and sworn in, will she still wear those pant-suit thingys?
|
|
Wild Bill
climber
Ca
|
|
Seriously: Does anyone really think Bush is going to rush out and pardon Scooter right now?
He'll wait until this has blown over. Which should be in about three more days, given the short collective attention span. Or he'll do it right after Britney enters rehab again, or Calista Flockhart comes out of the bulimia closet, or some "pap culture" icon breaks a nail. Cloud cover is essential for something like a Scooter pardon.
But the long American tradition dictates W will wait until he's in 'lame duck' status (hold your comments, I know he's been in lame duck status for seven years now), meaning sometime after elections but before Hilary is sworn in on Jan. 20 2009.
In the meantime they will "rehab" Scooter by showing what a model prisoner he is, how he converted to Islam in prison and is teaching other inmates about the legal system. They'll have plenty of time to dredge up something good about Scooter's past (i.e. photos of him dirtbaggin through Europe when he was fresh out of Yale or wherever).
This will be accomplished not with the hasty sword strike of an instant pardon. Rather, it will be carried out through the slow drip, drip, drip of public relations flaks. If you think they've left Scooter for dead you are wrong.
But, if you think they WANT Scooter dead, well, you're getting warmer!
As for real prison time - you betcha! Four felonies will get you real time, as in over one year, and maybe as much as four. I can't see it going beyond a four year sentence. I hope it doesn't. While I'd like to see it happen, I'm afraid a lengthy sentence would provoke the dreaded pardon. W would do it because he's the "compassionizer."
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
Gentlemen, there is still front page space for sale if you need to get your important message bumped to the front page for better visibility, stuff back here doesn't really get read.
Much.
|
|
BrentA
Gym climber
Roca Rojo
|
|
Isn't it standard issue for all outgoing presidents to pass off a few pardons as their last order of business?
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2007 - 01:58pm PT
|
has a president ever actually pardoned (or even had the opportunity to pardon) anyone who could potentially incriminate him or his VP?
this particular conflict of intrest seems unprecidented, and the stain on gW's legacy would be hard to clean away.
|
|
UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
|
|
fattrad,
"until the religion is moderated."
How do you moderate a religion?
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2007 - 02:55pm PT
|
domination, degradation, and if all else fails, nook-ya-leer anhilation
(duh! stoopid fungking kuestion, that was doogie)
edit-
"The Clinton's have so many skeletons in their closets"
yeah, real estate deals and blowjobs, and don't forget they wanted universal health care and peace in the middle east!
i just love the RapePublicCan version of history, it would actually be funny if it weren't so damn sad..
|
|
UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
|
|
Matt,
Fatty will like this.....
Eat the peanuts out of my dung.
Oh you can't, you have fattys penis in your mouth.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!