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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Keystone. Write a guide, make it available as hard copy but keep it off the internet. You can self publish and sell on amazon the print on demand so you don't have to order a bunch of books up front. or if its 20 pages or so you can put together a home printed rig and just have it at the local gym. Either way if you do not document the history it will be lost.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Tradman ? Do you do that? While at it come to Conneticut !
You can lead and re-name whatever you want to!
I know right !? It's pile!
they are just rocks !
I can't send the shjt anymore
And it would be cool if some else might.
I'm so conflicted, and over a pile of choss.
When it is all you've got it's not all that Chossy.
In fact it is an amazing chunk of roadside rock.
That I'm happy to still have to myself.
But I've put that picture out and others too.
It won't do as more than a footnote when finally it is
a place to go to be seen send 12s & 13s on gear.
I've seen 'em - cleaned them, and climbed them,
only leaving a stack of stones at the bottom and the top. So now as the data base fills up,
I see things and have felt the nagging sense that I should at least add my two cents.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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It was your choice not to report it.
No matter what your motivation, the result is the same, someone else happened along.
If you placed what makes it clear the climb was previously done then whoever is doing it now ought report that it was previously climbed...
If not, they have every reason to report what they climbed as an FA.
Some did not report routes they did seeking to avoid the celebration of self, and let those who follow have the same sense of exploration..
You seem to have kept it quiet to have your "own" climbing area, but now you want to declare your routes... knock yourself out, but you missed the boat.
reminds me of Troy Mayr taking the LA Times under the bridge in Pasadena, oh yea he promoted himself, fed his ego, got his photo in the LA Times, but we lost an amazing rainy day place to climb.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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My biggest worry would be being thought of as a chuffer, spraylord or braggart.
I think if you get over the thought that the lines you climbed are somehow important for the world and simply list them in the best place to document routes for that area (for documentation purposes), you are should be fine. Your original intentions are understandable and your present dilemma as well.
A few of my routes and areas aren't too shabby. They are my "Salathe'" Exactly! These things may not be very important, but to us as individuals they are. Yet we should not forget that they are not to the outside world. Hard to control what OTHER people want to do. That dude posting new names for your routes is probably psyched he found something cool and new. He is going through the same first ascent experience you had, which is also cool. And I bet he is not psyched about hearing that all the things he thought were new routes, were already climbed. Probably makes him unhappy because likely he felt some pleasure thinking those routes were new. And now something is being taken away from it. I don't know, just thinking outloud. No psychologist here. Could have been prevented if these routes are documented in some form. You do not have to benefit from submitting them on MP or anywhere else.
Whatever we climb is F*#KING CLIMBING. Not saving the world. It is as important as me going to shoot hoops at a playground, by myself. You are not doing something worthy to BRAG about. Sure, maybe some 10 dudes will think you are 'cool' in some way, but in the end, it is YOUR journey that no one else will be able to understand. If you want to contribute a cool experience to someone's life, you can talk about a worthy climb you did. Maybe someone else will climb it and enjoy it, or think it is complete sh#t? Experiences vary.
Other people will likely disagree, and that is their right, but the first ascent of some of the most bad ass Himalayan wall is nothing but a personal experience. Our little community likes to make a big deal out of the HISTORY, the first ascent of this, the last ascent of that...meh. The importance of history is to keep track of what is climbed, about how hard it is, how scary and when and who did it, not to boost egos.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Its always'damned if you do and damned if you don't'.
People who"discover" existing routes should keep their pie holes shut, but good luck with that. Climbers have egos so they spout.
It has happened to me dozens of times. I especially hate it when they add chicken bolts (which I then get blamed for).
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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There is no remembrance of former things,
nor will there be any remembrance
of later things yet to be
among those who come after.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I prefer to NOT put the routes on free internet/ Mtn project. My belief is that if you want a real guide you should support the guide book authors. In established areas I have always reported the routes. I have also done the research and found out everything I could about undocumented established areas and given that info to guide book authors. My intent was to document the history so that routes did not get retro bolted and renamed. At undocumented areas that are off the grid I have written a guide, kept it off the internet and made it available locally so the the folks going there have an idea what has been done, what to expect and what not to do that will get us all in troubble. Of course at Holts that bit me in the arse as folks who should have known better cut down a bunch of trees and the area got closed.
there is no easy answer. One method is to put the guide together, print it on your home printer and give it to the folks that are developing out there.
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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I always viewed cragging and climbing established routes as a sort of masterbatory practice
Ah, always wondered why I like climbing so much.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Keystone, although not as prolific as many guys, I ran into this exact problem. Not only did I keep the routes between myself and my partner, but we kept them as clean and natural as possible.
So years later I find out that these routes are being climbed and "claimed" in some cases decades later, because of their obscurity. A couple times I tried to assert my firstness, but it was just stressful, and in my case I realized that it was just my ego talking.
So I ultimately let it go, because in the big scheme of the "music of the spheres' it didn't mean sh#t.
I only speak for myself.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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#spraylord
Hahaha.
Great thread, especially thoughtful comments from DMT, Kingtut and a couple others.
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Mad69Dog
Ice climber
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"sorry to inform you dude, but that's my fish! I first caught it like a decade ago."
I caught it when it was a minnow, so I got the FFC.
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Document and share, everybody benefits.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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My whole climbing life was spent putting up first accents and developing new areas in Northern Arizona/Southern Utah.
How do you know they were first ascents?
What if someone just like you was in these "new areas" before you? Putting up first ascents but "keeping them hush for many moons."
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I agree with a lot of what's been said. And there are no wrong answers.
If it's raising your hackles do something about it now. Don't regret it later. If there's been no info on it, you can't get upset for kids thinking they're doing FAs. In fact they are probably bummed that they didn't get the FA.
There's the whole, leave it obscure, and it feels like an FA for every climber, but if someone else is posting about it that ship has sailed.
Post up on Mountain Project. It's the default repository of this kind of info. SuperTopo (only focused on areas setup by the site owners) and facebook ain't the place. Mountain Project is as close as it comes to community sourced info. You can add pictures and stories as needed in the comments, or put them in a pdf somewhere. I'd just stick with MP, it's free and easy.
Posting up FA details, topos,etc isn't spray/bragging. It's just the facts/history.
Big agree that if you don't document it people could add bolts. That would be a shame.
I'm of the opinion to make the info easily accessible (MP) so more people enjoy it, and hopefully bolts don't get added. The world is moving away from printed guides (especially for small areas) like it or not.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Ky,
Ron nailed it, "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
You know I've been bent over a fence and rammed from behind by people waving a white flag. I'm mostly certain Ron has, too.
I don't think there are any "right" answers and no right or wrong. I don't remember how many brews we've had over this topic over the last 15 years, but it is curious to get the different perspectives on the ST. We need to talk before you puke up certain details....
See ya on the lake when the bite picks up...
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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I respect that some people just don't give a rat's ass about documenting FA to get credit... but if it's nagging you... like Guy said:
Post up your stuff, ...
If you don't tell.... somebody will come along at some future time, date....
and add bolts and dream up names and post false info...
but it is really up to you....
Suggestion: Maybe just contact whomever created the MP page and ask them to edit? I had an area that I posted on MP that I had no info on who had gone before.. a guy contacted me later and claimed the FA's... which was fine... I was happy to edit the page to correct it once I knew who to credit and the correct route names.
and I agree...
nice trout
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dude, ur writing is great. And those pics look awesome!
Fuk MP and post up your TR's here!! There's plenty of politards here that will deal with the BS for ya:)
PS, that fish ain't that big;)
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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What would you say is the most popular route at Lover's Leap? The Line? What did the first ascent party find well above the crux of the Line on their ascent, a piton. If these walls could only talk, they're all haunted......enjoy your journey it's all yours.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Are you sure about the "more importantly because of humility" part? There's some humility available to you in letting it go and not needing to control what happens in the future. You did what you did for the reasons that you did them, and life moves on, whether we have the humility to accept the way that it goes on or not. Best to you!
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