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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jul 22, 2013 - 02:22am PT
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I remember almost dying from Blanchards silent but deadlies
Hitler's Death camps had NOTHING on Mark! I spent too many nights in tents, etc. with that guy and know first hand.
Mark once borrowed a Chouinard Foamback cagoule from a mutual friend. He used it no more than an hour or two. The thing NEVER recovered and had to be burned at the stake.
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 03:54am PT
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I just tried my SP on a Beal 9.8mm 'Golden Dry' that has been used one day (6 pitches of trad granite, one rappel). It locks up just fine. It 'slips' about 2 or 3 inches as the clove hitch tightens up, similar to what all ropes do.
That helps, thanks. Perhaps I forgot to say that I love my SP. As any other partner, once it disappointed me, but our relationship is solid. I think that I figured out what was wrong even before Blanchard's response. The waterproofing coating of a brand new rope makes it very slippery. This effect is MUCH reduced once the rope has been used a little. I would recommend a series of full-length rappels with a figure-of-eight device before using it with the SP. By the way, the proper functioning of the SP relies on rope-to-rope and rope-to-drum FRICTION. If any of the two (or both) friction coefficients is too low, e.g. due to a slippery rope, the clove hitch will slide infinitely regardless of the character of the pull.
PS. The title was intentionally "stupid" so as to attract immediate attention.
PSS. Many knots, Norwegian, yet none of them seems to be a proper back-up, LoL
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Stevee B
Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
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Jul 22, 2013 - 04:14am PT
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Hold up, Norweigan, lets get back to that insane Bertha you posted. So good.
Always strange to me how 1978 was such a hit & miss year but such a great year for Bertha.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 22, 2013 - 08:50am PT
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What Steve B said that particular Bertha brought tears to my eyes! They look so Happy, everyone grateful one of them in the video. They're sharing magic! I saw them a lot, in that time frame, lots of life memories tied with that era.
My sp has never let me down!! brand new ropes are slippery even just to belay with, in any device. Reassuring that real blinny did that test though. Great work all! Kumbya 'n shit!
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Jul 22, 2013 - 09:13am PT
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I use the Petzl Micro Traxion, and have a problem with it locking open when I pull in rope near the crux. What also freaks me out, though not as much, is I am afraid of getting something stuck in it between the cam and the rope rendering it useless.
Have you called the manufacturing engineers who signed off on it yet? That would be an interesting conversation, he should be freaking out by now.
I guess you have two choices: 1.) use a slightly warn and sticky rope.
[BTW I used a rope with a gri-gri in a chute full of white powder. The gri-gri got stuck so bad from a the little bit of powder in there, similar to chalk, but more slippery, that it would not work. In other words, what your rope is like has a lot to do with it, and if it is wet with an old rope or wet and a new rope, that would make for an interesting test as well. You should do that.]
2.) Get a machine shop to take it apart knurl some new test wheels and put it back together again with a lock nut and bolt rated for high strength. When I say knurl I am actually talking about making waves in it rather than abrasive points. If you go too far it will cut up the rope.
Using a slightly warn rope vs. a new rope in this system is obviously a factor. In this kind of system there would be one for new and one for old ropes. I don't think I like the idea of using slippery new ropes for anything related to soling in the kind of system your using now even if it works.
What happens when used or new ropes are wet in your system?
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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Jul 22, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
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Note to Self: Stop reading these @^$&*! Q&A threads, lest Self gets all freaked out and decides to run away...Monty Python-like.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 22, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
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Thanks for this thread, despite some peoples' quibbles with its title. I, too, use and love my SP, but I'd never had occasion to use it on a brand-new rope. Now I know why I shouldn't.
John
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Jul 22, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
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crag you son-of-a,
why'd you send the o.p.
up a piss fir?
you could skip the foul sap
and just take
6 dehydrated-like bright
orange bladder movements
on your rope
and that should right and proper
break it in.
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
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I just tried my SP on a Beal 9.8mm 'Golden Dry' that has been used one day (6 pitches of trad granite, one rappel). It locks up just fine. It 'slips' about 2 or 3 inches as the clove hitch tightens up, similar to what all ropes do.
I have a lot of respect for the lad who devised the SP, yet my respect would had increased (rather than decreased) if he had at first admitted the problem. Yes, AFTER SOME USE (not clear how much) the rope works with the SP, but how about right out of the box? Can Mr Blanchard tell us if he tried that, too? I hope that everyone gets this message, and that's all I want. The SP is great, but be aware that it can fail with slippery ropes, in particular with brand new, waterproof-coated ropes.
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Baron Weasel
Trad climber
England
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Jul 22, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
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I have used Unicore ropes for caving and they do handle differently to other ropes. I'd suggest contacting Beal and Silent Partner to give them a heads up about your experience as it is in their interests to look after their customers (as dead ones spend way less money...)
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Ibex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
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eKat,
I did what you say before I posted anything at Supertopo. I will let you all know when I hear back from Rock Exotica. I did not mean that Blanchard is by any way responsible, but as he run to defend the SP he could had as well admitted the problem first. Anyway, my respect for him is still very high :-)
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jul 22, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
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Heads up with ur new rope, if u are belaying with a Grigri it will probably want to slip thru that as well. Just a heads up so you don't have to blame it on petzl when it happens.
New ropes are slippery should be the title of this thread.
Small companies have enough struggles without bullshit like this.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 22, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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I had a brand new rope last year when I soloed Iron Hawk using a Silent Partner. It held first try in my many tests and held four or five falls on the route itself.
It was a 10.2 Metolius Monster rope.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 22, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
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Ihateplastic...don't fret about the cagoule..There is a class action lawsuit being filed against Osha and includes anyone whoever was exposed to toxic gasses in close quarters with Blanchard...RJ
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 22, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
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I have never used a SP, yet somehow I have garnered enough information to know KNOTT to use a brand new rope.
Makes perfect sense to me.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jul 22, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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My fouled foamback hung above the kitty litter box to freshen...
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ocasals
Trad climber
Madrid
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Jul 23, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
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I use a 10mm Beal Tiger, golden dry (not unicore, bought arround 2009). I use it only to solo climb and it worked well from the first day (from "out of the box"). I only have "hand-tested" it, without takeing any real hard falls. I allways make some test pulls before starting a climb to make sure everything's ok, and I don't recall it ever slipping.
Hope it was of some help!
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DaveT.
Big Wall climber
Mammoth Lakes
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Jul 23, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
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Lets see a pic of your set up please. I've used mine many, many times on all types of ropes. I've had similar problems with 'hand' testing it- back it up and take the whipper, then report back to us. The clove must dynamically lock up, or it will slip. Quit hand testing it, and actually test it? Mine has never failed me, and yes, I have fallen on it many times with many different types of ropes
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DaveT.
Big Wall climber
Mammoth Lakes
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Jul 23, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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You're probably setting it up correctly, just give it a whip to see if it locks. Clove hitches are much more likely to snap tight with a dynamic loading, and this device needs dynamics to properly activate.
Good luck!
I've only had my self belay fail once, while rope soloing a 11a with a 9.1 rope through a very well-used gri gri. I went to the back up knot, 30 feet later.
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Deekaid
climber
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Jul 23, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
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Good post, as usual, from Dave T.
My experience has shown the same as what Dave is saying, although his is vastly more extensive than mine. I am also pretty sure he doesn't use the 50 clove hitch backup method.
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