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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jun 14, 2006 - 03:41pm PT
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pete, give it a rest, the skinner bashing is in another thread.
or you could post your TR and rant about it there.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 14, 2006 - 03:53pm PT
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I will post photos. Alex and Thomas told me last night they weren't sure if it was Tommy who placed the dozens of extra bolts on Dihedral Wall. Could it have been Todd? I don't know who it was, do you? But they need to come out. When you see they photos you'll agree. It's pretty bad, mate. A once-proud aid line all drilled to hell and turned to a sport climbing clipup.
I went free climbing once on Sunday....
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:00pm PT
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i only know about it second hand. it was brought up during the whole wet denim/lycra rant, one of those 100+ post taco classics.
iirc, caldwell also mentioned in the article about freeing it that he couldn't have done it w/ out skinner's "vision" and equipping. i'll double check the quote tonight.
this was the one that always seemed mind blowing. do you remember what you placed in this crack pete?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:17pm PT
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Did Triple Direct last week which of course included the Nose from Camp 4 up.
The whole routes is utterly and completely ticked up on nearly every pitch. It looks like a gym everything marked.
I have mixed feelings about it since, of course, the marks wash off and the ability that the Hubers show is mind boggling to me.
It does bring up the question of, if this sort of freeing and speeding trend is going to become popular, will we have to live with painted and detailed placements and jams on our big walls?
There was not obviously new gear fixed for the purpose of speeding things up, except that much of the already fixed gear had perlon loops attached, using the same EDK knot and type of cord. No foul in my mind there.
Hope to see ya in the valley John
Peace
Karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:25pm PT
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blinders?
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:30pm PT
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if you had 2 different parties working the same line at the same time, but w/ different beta, would they use different colors of chalk? then you could climb "the pink route" all the way up el cap!
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:33pm PT
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you've got it all wrong matt.
pink is for the right hand holds
blue is for the left hand holds
white for foot holds.
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Tradboy
Social climber
Valley
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:35pm PT
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Thanks Karl for reiterating my original point and confirming the idiocy of the following statement from someone who wasn't up there:
There may be a few tickmarks
Pete, how many bolts were there? I'd like to see the pictures as well. I doubt Tommy added any but he certainly didn't have problems clipping them. Didn't he get busted a few years back for having a power drill on Muir? He was also railing on Ivo and Thomas for bolting a new variation to Changing Corners. Yet, he couldn't have freed the Nose without the Jardine Traverse. Do I sense some hypocrisy
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:41pm PT
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i remember hearing somewhere that skinner had bolted many pitches that sean leary had already successfully freed on gear, but i am not an authority on the matter.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jun 14, 2006 - 04:42pm PT
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tommy was still in his sport clippin' days(and probably about 15) when Cosgrove and Smith got busted for the power drill on the muir.
he certiainly does utilize the work of others this way, but it's a good way free walls w/ out making a decision about fixed gear.
agree about the nose hypocrisy though. Sandahal adds an arbitrary bolt to the changing corners pitch, can't free it. Lynn comes around a few month's later and uses said bolt to free the pitch. a LONG time later T&B do the same. shortly after, ivo and thomas add another arbitrary(remember, the first one wasn't original) bolt and everyone get's pissed.
huh?
edit: here's the original post about skinner adding bolts to the dihedral. first post, all the rest is typical taco name calling
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=128775#msg153902
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 14, 2006 - 05:00pm PT
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"do you remember what you placed in this crack pete?"
Checking. Will post photos. Stand by.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jun 14, 2006 - 05:06pm PT
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you should have chopped them Pete!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 14, 2006 - 05:21pm PT
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Chop? Oh hell, no - the perpetrator[s] are not going to get off that easily!
What needs to happen is that whoever put them in has to go back up and remove them. This means using tuning forks to remove each and every bolt that desecrates this once-proud line, and FILL THE HOLES with a mixture of epoxy and rock dust to render the holes as invisible as possible, thus returning the route to its original state.
This is not a Lazy Man's Project. It will involve substantive work. I'm not going to do it, because I didn't bugger it up in the first place. Neither am I going to do a half-assed job. It was tempting to steal the bolt hangers, but I don't need them, and besides, they are needed to slip the tuning forks beneath.
If the climber[s] who placed these scores of extra bolts won't remove them voluntarily, then their sponsors should be contacted so that the sponsors can apply some pressure. This sort of stuff isn't cool!
Imagine this if you will - bolts placed a measured five feet apart - five or six in a row - right next to a perfect A3 crack. I'm talking about a foot to eighteen inches away from the crack. Dihedral Wall is somewhat obscure, it doesn't get a lot of traffic.
Now imagine if the Hubers had done such a thing in their attempt to free climb Zodiac, just to make it easier and to save pockets for their fingerholds? What do you think the outcry would have been? [Note: The Hubers are not pussies. They run it out, a long way, over hard ground, rather than add bolts to existing lines]
The only reason people haven't said anything about Dihedral Wall is that they didn't know about it. This is about to change, as you will see.
I am uploading photos now.
The photo in the question above is undoubtedly the tenth pitch above The Ledge. The pinnacle in the background is unmistakable. This was far and away the worst overbolting on the route, as you are about to see.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jun 14, 2006 - 05:34pm PT
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Jaybro... yup in must be the blinders. makes you wonder how you can assassinate someone you can't see.
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yo
climber
I'm so over it
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Jun 14, 2006 - 05:44pm PT
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Hi, John. Hope to see you. I have one of your ledges. It's real keen.
hahahahahahah!!!
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jun 14, 2006 - 06:09pm PT
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Yeah John, I hope you see yo on "your" trip to the ditch. I have one of your spoons. It's really keen.
*giggle*
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 14, 2006 - 08:31pm PT
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I just spent fifteen minutes on the phone with Thomas and Alex, I called to wish them luck tomorrow.
I asked them about the tick-marks of chalk, and they told me that they placed them to mark the cam placements. "Ven vee are laybacking, vee can't see where to place ze cams. But we know the chalk marks a bomber cam placement. Yes, we will remove the chalk marks afterwards. We don't need them now as we have everything memorized."
"We aren't trying to hide anything - everything is being filmed anyway. Once the movie comes out, you can see exactly what we've done."
Did you place any pitons?
"Not one fukking piton did we place! We replaced a few of the old manky slings with new ones. Why should we trust falling onto an old sling?"
What's this I hear about you guys putting in lots of pitons on Zodiac for your speed ascent and your free ascent?
"It's not true! We put in only a few. When we made the speed ascent, the route was fully equipped with lots of fixed gear."
"But when we made the speed ascent, we did place a small number of pins, mostly on the variations away from the aid route. On the aid route, two key pitons were as follows. One was on the Nipple Pitch - we placed one good pin, and from there we would run it out [about ten metres]. On the pitch below the Nipple, we cleaned out three fixed heads and replaced them with two beaks."
From the sounds of it, they really didn't add many pins to Zodiac.
So what about all those new bolts on Dihedral Wall? There are ladders of bolts only inches away from perfectly good placements in the cracks!
"I know for a fact some of them were placed by Todd Skinner. I don't know how many extra, if any at all, were placed by Tommy Caldwell."
Regardless of the outcome of their speed attempt tomorrow, they remain on the summit for another day or two working on the film.
You guys who talk smack about Alex and Thomas really need to get a life. These guys are straight-shooters all the way, not to mention being helluva nice guys. Approachable, unpretentious, they're a class act all the way.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
California somewhere
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Jun 14, 2006 - 08:45pm PT
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Hey Pete, where'd Thomas' accent go from the first paragraph to the last? He started so German and became so American hahah!
I agree, they're both great guys. I've spent numerous meadow sessions with them over the years and they're always great to be around. Their passion for climbing is contagious. Thomas came along a couple weeks ago and was hanging with us and someone was asking him all kinds of questions about the Nose speed attempt and he happily and honestly answered every one of them.
Those guys are the real deal.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 14, 2006 - 08:52pm PT
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Vell, it vas getting a bit hard to read, ja?
So where else but Yosemite can you schmooze with the world's best? Alex and Thomas are always supportive of everyone's efforts, from the pros down to the gumbies like me. They were genuinely interested in my two-week ascent of Dihedral Wall with Cybele, the antithesis of a speed ascent.
"Zis is 'Pass the Pitons' Pete," they introduced me last night to their film crew. "He is ze von vee told you about vith ze ghetto blaster up on ze vall playing AC/DC!"
Good luck tomorrow, lads!
I *know* you're reading this, Thomas. So come on and make a Supertopo post.
Voice of Dirty Harry: "Do it, PUNK!"
Come on, do your Arnie voice!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jun 14, 2006 - 09:30pm PT
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Hey guys, Deuce above is not the same as deuce (aka John M.)
I saw those Beaks the Huberbaum placed on Zodiac below the nipple. Those sucker were freakin in there! I could visualize Alex smashing them with all his might then taking 30ft whippers on them. I felt pretty secure!
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