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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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I've been climbing for over 10 years, so noob, I'm not.
Nice way to hijack a cool, and relevant thread too, dipsh#t.
Start a new one, Bluey is a noob, is a good title.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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meh....read upthread. CAMP is recalling their China-produced gear.
dipshit!
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Apr 27, 2011 - 10:24am PT
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All those biners are nice.... If you're a SAR guy.
BD Biners are USA made.
The Camp issue sounds like it was design related and not materials. They found it while destructive testing the batch. It sounds similar to the WC recall of the Heliums early in their production life where the gate notch angle wasn't perfect on one run.
From another Forum...
Hi Everyone,
CAMP USA here. In fact, we sold less than 300 units of the Photon in the time between we released it to market and discovered the anomaly. The CPSC required us to list all of the units we had manufactured, but most retailers had not even gotten them onto the floors. If you do have them, please drop us an email at climbing@camp-usa.com and we will take care of it right away. It is a really strange and frustrating problem. On a very small number of units under a high load, the gate does a weird creep that then puts the biner in the open gate configuration. The reality of one actually breaking in the field is very small, but as we hold our customers' safety as our top priority we are pulling out all the stops. We are simply unable to devise a test short of breaking every unit to failure that would identify every affected unit (and every carabiner we make is already individually tested). So even if the percentage is miniscule, we have decided to pull them all back. We have already made the necessary tweaks to the mold and our Director of R&D is following the pre-production samples now. We will be testing the snot out of these, then we will move into production, test the snot of those, then re-release them. We expect them to be back in shops within 60 days. We apologize for the inconvenience and we look forward to your feedback once you have had a chance to clip them. The market feedback to date has been so strong that many of the climbers who had purchased them said they would miss them like a child in their absence!
Sincerely,
CAMP USA Inc.
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Banquo
Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
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Apr 27, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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Doesn't Omega Pacific still make their carabiners in The USA? They used to use paid prison labor. Nothing wrong with prison labor, they never show up to work hung over.
Omega Pacific announces relocation, end of inmate labor program.
Spokane, WA – Omega Pacific, a leading manufacturer of climbing, rescue and safety equipment announced today that it will be consolidating its operations by combining separate manufacturing plants and administration offices into a new, single location approximately a mile from its two current facilities. The move, which will be conducted in phases, will begin in June. Upon conclusion, all operations, including manufacturing, sales, marketing, purchasing, quality control and administration will be housed under one roof for the first time since 1999.
“This move provides us the opportunity to increase efficiencies and reduce doubling up on such departments as shipping and secondary assembly as we move forward,” said company president Bert Atw#ter. According to Atw#ter, the company has purchased a 21,000 square-foot facility that will be expanded to over 40,000 feet over the summer to prepare for the growth and expansion the company anticipates over the next five years. “This is a good time for the company and we need to prepare ourselves for the long-term future,” Atw#ter said.
The announcement comes on the heels of a May 13, 2004 ruling by the Washington State Supreme court which declares participation in the Class I Correctional Industries program inconsistent with constitutional language. Omega Pacific has been a participating member of the combined federal/State program since 1995 and has built the majority of their goods within the Airway Heights Medium Security Correctional Center outside Spokane, Washington. The State Supreme Court had been considering this ruling, which affects seven companies and approximately 175 jobs held by inmate workers, for several months before reaching a 5-4 decision.“
The timing of the ruling is largely coincidental,” reported Rob Nadeau, CEO. “We’d been preparing for a move like this for some time, actually. This only pushes the timeline a bit forward,” he said. “We do not expect our customers to notice any change at all.”
According to Atw#ter, the program, while considered successful by every measure according to him, has been assailed by non-participating companies for years. “We took flak for a long time over our involvement in the program. Many of our critics claimed we took advantage of an unfair business advantage but I challenge them to show me just where it was. We didn’t get any breaks in labor rates or wages and security issues and tool counts ate up our rent allowance. Meanwhile, inmates who participate in this program were 87% less likely to re-offend than inmates who didn’t. Besides learning how to become metalworkers, machine operators, clerks and assemblers, these men were able to remain a viable and integral part of the lives with their families on the outside. Most of them sent money home every month to help maintain what they left behind. It helped them to have something they could look forward to when they were released,” said Atw#ter.
The Supreme Court ruling, while regrettable, according to sales and marketing director Michael Lane, wasn’t the sole reason for the move. “Frankly, we’d grown weary of having so many misinformed and uneducated people try to denigrate us for our involvement in this program. Having to repeatedly defend our position was beginning to take its toll on our overall efficiency.”
Atw#ter adds, “it’s really too bad, to tell you the truth. This program is the single-most effective form of prison rehabilitation in the history of the United States prison system. A few short-sighted individuals never understood that and it’s now being discarded. Society is the real victim in this ruling.”
Although the timing of the move may have been unexpected, the company is optimistic about its future because it has prepared for this possibility for some time. “I’m pretty excited about the future,” said Lane, “we’re strong in our markets; we know what we’re doing and we have an excellent management staff in place. Our new facility will provide increased efficiencies and greater communication between departments, which was always a challenge while our company was housed in two separate facilities.” He adds, “Quite frankly, I can’t wait to show our critics that Omega Pacific is successful because we’re Omega Pacific, not because we operated out of a prison.”
“We regret that we have to say goodbye to our current workforce,” said Nadeau. “They’ve helped us increase quality and production. They were essential to us earning our ISO 9001 status last year and they will be sorely missed. We wish them good luck in the future.” The company is increasing production and hiring new workers to maintain supply through the summer transition. “We won’t miss an order,” Lane said. Meanwhile, the company will continue to move forward with design of the innovative Link Cam active camming device for the recreational climbing market, which was launched at Summer OR in August 2004.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 27, 2011 - 11:43am PT
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SMC and Omega Pacific also make carabiners in the US. I think BD still does as well but they may mix it in with Chinese production as well. Don't know for sure.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
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I don't the argument that anything made in the USA is, by default, going to be safer. Weren't CCH aliens made in the USA? Faulty logic.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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Cleo, I'm not really saying American hardware is faultless 100% of the time. I'm saying Chinese hardware is generally inferior to Japanese, German, or American hardware.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 02:38pm PT
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Well, then bluey, you better not drive on the New Bay Bridge, since the only country with expertise these days to build such a structure is China... and much of the construction is being done by the Chinese!
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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DMT...
so, is it okay to buy Subarus? They have factories in the US of A, and my Subaru was actually built here.
(And yes, I do happen to think that Japanese cars are far superior to American ones, and so do organizations like, oh, the American magazine Consumer Reports)
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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Omega Pacific.
Great carabiners made in Spokane by people who live in Spokane.... Awesome.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
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fattrad...
and the giant crane(s)are Chinese (driven by whom?)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
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Geez, Cleo, I'm not saying the Chinese are good-for nothing. I'm saying that we currently make better, more reliable tools and hardware.
You use Chinese biners, I ain't!
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
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But wait, the UIAA is a euro based organization - they can't have as good of standards as the USA, right? How can we trust our biners and ropes now?
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 03:48pm PT
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Cleo's right. My company was doing some of the weld inspections on the Bay Bridge and one of our inspectors gave us a brown bag presentation on the job before heading over to do some inspections in China.
No US company has the expertise to create large bridges like the Bay Bridge anymore.
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Apr 27, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
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Pretty sure Petzl has some US based manufacturing (by Rock Exotica I believe).
US sourced may be better for some things but a BLANKET statement that you must by made in the USA is myopic at best.
Maybe China isn't the best choice but there is PLENTY of quality stuff (not just climbing) soured from the EU etc.
Global commerce is here to stay. How the USA adapts and thrives in it is the million dollar question.
Being the technology leader is part of the answer IMO.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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Ok, question:
Most of the "Buy USA" crowd are conservatives.
Conservatives are supposed to be into Free Markets.
This seems like a contradiction to me. Isn't insisting on USA-made products an artificial control on a market that, in theory, should be promoting the best product out there?
(serious question - no left/right bashing for the sake of bashing!)
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miwuksurfer
Social climber
Mi-Wuk
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Apr 27, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
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Cleo,
I think the "BUY USA" argument could be better worded as "Buy local".
I'm not arguing against the reality of or people's perception of a global economy, but the fact that buying local often has more of a positive impact.
And no, there are no more "Foreign" or "Domestic" automobile companies anymore.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 27, 2011 - 04:53pm PT
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Fair enough...
But the "Buy Local" crowd are usually liberals, which fits the controlled market philosophy (recognizing that Free Markets are not really free, and that there are hidden costs not reflected in the price, availability, or quality).
I'm more curious as to the contradiction(s)... why are Free Market folks the same as the Buy USA folks (and conversely, why do liberals who only eat vegetables grown within 100 miles happily buy foreign cars? why is the anti-globalization crowd not also the Buy USA crowd?)
(I can probably answer the latter, and I know the former is a cultural thing, but I'm curious to hear what others think regarding there being a contradiction)
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