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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 18, 2010 - 06:35pm PT
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I went for gas mileage this time after my FWD Rodeo started to die after 18 years and 307,000 miles and got a Hamstermobile.
More ground clearance than the other econoboxes.
Handles mountain as roads well as anything this side of a true sports car.
And, the chicks dig it!
Can't sleep in it, but that's what the ground is for.
I'll only miss the FWD about once a year and maybe walk a little bit. I do miss the tailgate, but then those are as extinct as woolly mammoths and crankup windows.
Just glad I didn't buy a white one now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYmChMkLi7k
just make sure you do the math and figure out what the total cost of ownership is going to be. You can buy a lot of gas for a few thousand bucks in initial cost or insurance / maintenance cost difference.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Aug 18, 2010 - 06:43pm PT
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Old Priest is a lark for the Prius.
The TDI sounds too good to be true? What's the fine print on it?
Something must be wrong with it?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 18, 2010 - 06:47pm PT
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The TDI sounds too good to be true? What's the fine print on it?
Something must be wrong with it?
They cost way to damn much and no VW can pass a dealership without relieving you of at least $500
(former Passat owner)
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
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single car reputed to have made the most trips to Joshua tree in one year?
wasn't that a Honda Prelude, with some french place on the lic plate?
Point Alle ???
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Aug 18, 2010 - 07:29pm PT
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Do the math so you factor in initial cost as well as mileage. For example if you look at 150k miles as a car lifetime (may be more or less, but it's the number I use):
50 mpg average uses 3000 gallons of gas, or $9000 of gas at $3/gal.
30 mpg average uses 5000 gallons of gas, or $15000 of gas at $3/gal.
So if you spend less than $6k more to get the Prius vs. say a Matrix you are better off. In general most hybrids are break even at best right now, depending on how you factor in guesses about rising gas prices, financing prices, etc. Factoring this into a used rig is even more reading of the tea leaves.
My opinion is that the best car is one you own free and clear, regardless of the mileage. Car payments come every month no matter how much you drive, at least with a paid for gas guzzler you can cut back on the driving during tight months.
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SeanH
climber
San Mateo, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 07:45pm PT
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The TDI sounds too good to be true? What's the fine print on it?
Something must be wrong with it?
They cost way to damn much and no VW can pass a dealership without relieving you of at least $500
(former Passat owner)
Not so sure about that. I think the fine print on it is that Americans are either scared of diesel, or don't realize there are good alternatives to the Prius/Insight.
As far as expense...I got the dealer down to 23,8k for mine. The first number this particular dealer came at me with was like 27,4 or so. You just have to know how to play the game (which sucks, but it is what it is.)
Anyway, I would not consider 24k unreasonable for what I got. (Disclaimer...I bought a manual, so throw in a grand most likely for the auto.) I plan on using it, so I won't baby it forever, but it's got a lot of creature comfort...heated seats, big big moonroof, stereo with lots of doodads (ipod, takes SD cards, can even plug in a hard drive with mp3s), hands free for your phone, rain sensing wipers, etc. The germans know a thing or two about building cars.
Anyway, if you're skeptical, I recommend a test drive, they won't mind. You'd be surprised how well the car performs given the economy it's capable of.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 18, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
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The problem isn't that it's diesel. I owned a Mazda truck way back that had a Perkins diesel. It was a great little truck and I used it till the seat and everything but the drive train was completely worn out.
The problem is that German companies, be it autos or industrial equipment work on the premise that anything you buy from them you will pay for three times.
Once on the initial purchase and twice more when you need to fix it.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 18, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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Well, if you're a moron, by all means, go to the stealership. A typical story is a dealership telling you that you need a new fuel pump ($1200), so you take it to a diesel shop, and they replace the gaskets in your fuel pump ($3.00 plus labor) and you're good to go.
Otherwise, find a good diesel shop (I use good guys biodiesel in Santa Cruz) and you're good.
They've won "Green Car of the Year" for two years now. Gotta be a reason.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 18, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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VW uses a proprietary computer(not OBD compliant)so for some stuff you are stuck with the dealer.
The parts are a fortune no mater where you get them.
My wife loved the car, but after the first five years, yearly maintenance costs were close to the total I spent on the Isuzu in 18 and the Mazda truck in ten or so.
This is a cultural thing. BMW, Mercedes and all German industrial equipment companies have similar parts pricing structures.
Again, just getting back to the point that everything needs to be considered to get to an analysis of total cost of ownership.
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DeepGlue
Trad climber
Albany, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2010 - 09:31pm PT
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Thanks for all the advice. At this point, unless a winter of going to more trailheads changes my mind, I'm not planning on getting AWD. So it's between the Prius/Insight and Jetta TDI wagon. So there's more research to do, but that really narrows it down.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 18, 2010 - 09:35pm PT
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i always thought the Profit-prophet, dual entendre thing in that song was intentional....
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DeepGlue
Trad climber
Albany, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2010 - 07:45am PT
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Wow, that site is nice! I'd found one I thought was good, but forget about it!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 19, 2010 - 09:36am PT
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t*r, time multiplied by rate = chaos. t/r, time divided by rate = velocity's inverse = imploding.
t*are = a chick with hope and visions
t*our = supertopo's little rainbow tamer.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 19, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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Difference between Prius and a TDI:
The Hybird's get their best gas mileage in the city while the Diesels go better on the highway.
And being able to burn biodiesel is a real plus if you think oil is becoming depleted and gas prices will soar. (which a lot of hybird owners feel) Having had lots of volkwagons earlier in my life, I sure hope they need less maintenance and are more reliable now. Since I've been driving Acura and Toyota (even Subaru) I forgot what being stabbed in the back by an unreliable car felt like.
Peace
Karl
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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Aug 19, 2010 - 11:49am PT
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I fought over this for a long time. You live in Albany, NY (on your header) and I can say you won't be sorry to have the Subaru AWD over the winter. I live in SLC and can't say enough about how much better I feel driving my Impreza in our canyons and around town all winter. Snow tires makes it even better.
But the most important part of driving my car is how torque-ey it is. Busting out into busy traffic almost never bothers me. If I'm driving 70 on the freeway I frequently get 30+ mpg.
My only regret is not getting the turbo.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 19, 2010 - 12:36pm PT
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TGT, I just ordered the timing belt kit (dealership quoted me 1600 dollars parts + labor) from dieselgeek.com for $330. This was the 100k belt, all the idlers, a brass impeller bosch water pump, serpentine belt, engine mount bolts, etc etc. In all, a 33 piece kit. A 900 dollar kit for a third of that. Had good guys do the install for 400. $730 total.
Oil change interval is TEN THOUSAND MILES.
My rig purrs like a very contented cat.
And hearing that turbo spool up puts a smile on my face every time.
Mine's OBD II. Not proprietary. Are you talking about the Vag-Com interface?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 19, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
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Oil change interval on most cars can be 10K miles. The need to change it more frequently is a myth promoted by the industry.
Consumer reports did a big study on taxi cabs and found no need to change at 3-5K.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 19, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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The Consumer Report you're referencing (I Believe) was the August 1996 issue where the used 60 New York Taxi Cabs to compare different oils. Fantastic study.
Agreed, they found changing oil more frequently then 5k wasn't necessary if using a API certified oil, either organic or synthetic. But they also pointed out some valid reasons for not stretching it out to 10k for the average driver.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Aug 19, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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big hybrid discussion here but what's the true cost of that battery?
so I hear that battery is ecologically expensive, and costly to replace, has a lifetime of 10years or less and so far are not cost effectively reconditionable. What happens when it gives out?
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