Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
Maybe someday if I believe in something politically strong enough I can talk with her and see if she'll let me break our promise.
Maybe she didn't want you to get sucked into the BS that comes with being a politician. There have been some who have avoided the BS and represented their people respectfully and honestly.
I think she'd like that, especially if it helped out people and was something she'd be proud of you for.
Too many rotten politicians, not enough Ron's.
peace, dude.
|
|
dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
|
|
Too many rotten politicians and too many broke states on this 4th. Where did the money go?
|
|
Robb
Social climber
It's like FoCo in NoCo Daddy-O!
|
|
dt,it went to mandates & entitlements as well as other places.
How many of you guys/gals have spent time amongst the people,on the res?
PS: dt, you guys gettin' pounded up your way? We're gettin' a bit of a break here today(Baja Wyoming).
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
dt,it went to mandates & entitlements as well as other places.
Word. Totally broken system and especially this state.....
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
The political process is the act of negotiating and reconciling ideas collectively as a society. Why would you ever promise someone not to take an active part in the society that you live in?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
A politician can NEVER be trusted.
Why do you people waste your time with such a stupid system?
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
Why would you ever promise someone not to take an active part in the society that you live in?
Because his grandmother asked him to. And he probably has some respect for his grandmother.
You're reading too much into what he said too.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
Why do you people waste your time with such a stupid system?
Master Braun, it's all we have to work with right now. Yeah, it sucks, but we strive to make it better...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
How can you make it better when the foundation is defective?
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Politicians have to be people pleasers. That's a huge part of "the problem." I look at most and think, "I wouldn't want to be friends with them." The system does not reward the smartest or most talented: it rewards people with an entirely different set of skills that might or might not be useful.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
You fix the foundation, Werner. Hard to do, but that's all we can strive for...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
You can't be trusted and you're going to fix the system .....
|
|
L
climber
A deep dive in the shallows of life..
|
|
Dang Bluering...I'm impressed. We're going to have a great bonfire chat at FL, dude...maybe more than one. ;-)
One glaring difference between Native thought and European/white thought is where it comes from. That sounds odd, I know, but it's the truth. Left brain/right brain sort of thing...or mind vs. spirit, to be more precise.
Indigenous cultures have always been part of the land. They live and breathe with the cycles of the Earth...or at least they used to. The majority of them reside in their being most of the time, attuned to the seasons, the wind, the wildlife, intuition and feeling. Attuned to something unseen and non-conceptual...something much more eternal. And community-based. Without community, they knew they were doomed.
European settlers, on the other hand--or invader/conquerors of other countries--obviously reside mostly in the mind. To invade another country, occupy it and subjugate its people, you have to be mind-dominated. That's not the work of spirit. Analytical, conceptualizing, focused on an end result with little or no concern for the means...and willing to annihilate anything which stands in the way of success--that's the mechanics of a mind-based culture. And Individualism is prized much more highly than community...which has some insidious implications when it comes to Global thinking.
These are not judgments, just simple statements of fact. History can attest to it, too. Especially the history of the 20th century.
There's a certain arrogance in thinking Indigenous cultures need to step into the 21st century...and I've been guilty of it myself. Look around you. Does the 21st century look like Paradise to you?
Of course it does, because every home has 2 computers and 3 cars, automatic dishwashers and Sonys of our ownies. We can waste more genetically-modified imitation food in a day than most Indigenous people would eat in a week. We can live for the weekends, play weekend warrior out in nature, and take 3-week vacations anywhere in the world...anywhere that takes Visa or MasterCard (so crushing debt has become our way of life). We have 30 pairs of jeans and wear 3 of them. And we have the best medical facilities in the world...because we need the best medical facilities in the world.
We are the fattest race on the planet. Heart disease and cancer are consuming us the way we consume Indigenous cultures, raze and burn the forests, decimate mountaintops and poison the land. There are more particles of plastic in our oceans now than there is plankton. And there's less and less plankton now because of the climate change our technologies have fed...which means whales and other plankton-eaters are slowly starving. And this is only the cherry atop the parfait of catastrophe we've brought upon ourselves by heedlessly racing into the 21st century, consequences be damned. It doesn't look so much like Paradise these days, does it?
So what's the answer, you ask--return to living like cavemen?
For myself, I think a waltz with Indigenous cultures would be a much better answer than demanding they adjust to our insanity. Their simpler way of life can offer we compartmentalized inmates the chance to escape our minds and live like whole human beings. And we Geniuses of the Practically Useless can offer Indigenous cultures better irrigation practices (since we've stolen their water), better farming practices (since we stuck them on arid land), and...well...we could offer to pay them handsomely for teaching us how to live in harmony with nature and this amazing planet we call home.
Please do not look at the reservations and point out how they aren't doing those things there. The reservations are akin to concentration camps, only the gas chambers are in a different form. Suuurrrreee they can leave the reservation...living a life you don't understand on the streets of some big city has to be a remarkably attractive option. Especially for people who value community...the streets of our cities have to look like Hiroshima after the bomb. Horrible. Frightening.
When I lived in Anchorage, it was a daily occurrence to see a drunken Eskimo defecating on the street corner...or urinating in some doorway. These are people whose ancestors hunted seals and polar bears...they thrived where most of us couldn't even survive. That age is gone...but there are better options than turning a blind-eye as most people want to do.
Sorry for the ramble...I was out running mountain trails and have a lot of energy.
You're a good man, Bluering. Stubborn as heck...and a pot-stirrer (which isn't such a bad thing)...but you have a huge heart--I saw it in that photo of you with your son. Just keep thinking about this...or better yet...keep feeling about it. You'll start to see some amazing things blossom in your life.
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
HighDesertDJ.. with all due respect to you and your opinion, but you ain't got a clue. Werner puts in so eloquently, you can't trust a politician. My grandmother was a product of western "civilization" as the white man put it. She was PUT on a reservation, she had her culture, religion and social livelihood taken from her. She could not understand how this government could come in and take from one person with no regard, force them to live a life the government chose for them to live, massacre, steal, enslave, lie and discriminate against them. She could not understand why an Indian had to "register" and get a number in a land that they originally lived in. She told me only animals have to register and get numbers, not Indians. So she had some very personal feelings about the government in this country. Out of respect for her and her feelings(and she was wise beyond my comprehension)I granted her wishes to not participate or register myself and I did this at the age of 4 or 5(go figure)I have not EVER regreted this decision and it has NEVER worked against me. I don't have the same feelings as her, I did not live through what she did. But I do know she and I were very close, she taught me lessons in life at a young age that I still live by and I will honor her wishes out of respect for her. No ill feelings for your question, but there is usually "more to the story than one person knows". Lesson from my grandma! Besides mostly what I hear from people that do participate in the government here, is criticism and unhappiness. Think I'll wait until I can participate in a system that I'm more comfortable with.
Peace
Edit: L, that last line of yours is so freeeking true, believe it Bluering
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
Werner, I don't claim to have the truth, but I do know wrong when I see it. I know our system is flawed. But it still seems to be the best thing going.
thanks, L. You're a profound woman for sure.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
I think we need let this thread go with respect to John.
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
I am baailing on this post. Some horrible news. Please understand.
Ron
|
|
gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
|
|
Went back and re-read OP, and then followups. Regardless of where one stands, a rigorous personal ethic and depth shines through.
RESPECT!
It's a great loss, and not just to climbers.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
Yeah, boy do I feel like a sack of sh#t now...Of course John did go on to say "Dude, I didn't write it, I was just reading it.... I guess I think too much sometimes, sorry.
I'm a total free market capitalist by the way. "
Thanks for yankin' my chain, John.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
I'm done here, Wes.
I've talked to some others offline and I'm going to let this go. I have a lot of respect for Native Americans and I'll leave it at that.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!