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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 22, 2008 - 05:48pm PT
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Good times indeed. Drop the line down The Line, rap down, climb up. Move the anchor
over to Psychedelic Tree or whatever, rap down, climb up, Repeat till yer pooped.
I never did get around to ever leading the Royal Robbins classic Fastasia. However, I
would never even think of dropping a TR onto the whole show, although I've seen it done.
That's knott how I roll. If and when I ever get the sack, it will be a proud ground up ascent!
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Apr 22, 2008 - 07:49pm PT
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Thanks, Richard. You have a style with words that trumps sixty year old mantras and ancient debates no longer relevant.
Arguing for people and events as individual and unique is a sign of modernism.
Matt... what's wrong with Pete? Its ok. I can't climb A5 too.
:D
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 22, 2008 - 07:54pm PT
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I wanna shut this thread down...
LEB, can you post up a thought or two? thx
heh
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jsb
Trad climber
Bay area
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Apr 22, 2008 - 11:53pm PT
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bump!
just saw this thread... must have missed it the first 1809 times around. ;)
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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Apr 23, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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I must have missed a similar sentiment back there somewhere (who could read it all with vigor?) BUT, does anyone ever talk about the audacity of rockclimbers thinking that THEIR 'ethics' and opinions are SO godawaful important to a discussion about wilderness, or national parks or anything related to a large granitic mountain of such beauty? What about all the other users of this resource?
Or, in other words, who cares about some line up the side of Half Dome. It's not yours, it's not mine, it's a rock inside a national park and climbers aren't the definitive source of all morality around that. This issue is not so damned important. There are important ones around there, near there, and more on the horizon. This ain't one, though.
Put a potato in your own exhaust pipe. ha.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Apr 23, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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Hey, what's going on here? Did I miss something?
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 23, 2008 - 03:52am PT
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O.K. I just finished drawing up the new topo. I never could find the original. I know I will, It's just buried in a room full of climbing gear. Really buried !!!
Anyway this one came out pretty good looking considering I'm up at midnight using my snake bit finger as an excuse to be loaded on vicodin.
Don't be scared of me being crosseye drawing a topo of a 2,000 ft. route though. Remember, there's so many bolts up there and even bomber anchors to get down on if needed. You can't go wrong.
I can't be sure because I haven't done the whole original south face route, but it seems like if you were on the upper wall trying to descend. When you get to the huge roof (that would be the anchor above the "escape hatch" ) if you were rapping on 2 60m. ropes, you would be able to get onto Growng Up and then to the ground.
Holy sh#t !!! maybe we should go and demolish the lower part of GU as well. By doing it, It possibly made the descent from SF safer and more efficient. Yep, we'de better go and chop all the anchors on the lower wall even though they were put in in "good" style.
I talked to Ken Yeager today and he said he'd help me get the topo scanned when I was finished since I can't do that here. I'll get it on there asap. Sorry for the delay.
Sean.
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 23, 2008 - 03:55am PT
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Blowboarder,
Sorry I haven't called you yet. Not trying to be rude, I've just been maxed out.
Peace,
Sean.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Apr 23, 2008 - 07:17am PT
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Hardman, obviously I was not thinking anybody would want to rap 2mm line - note the comment about the winch and getting the rope "down there".
Small line hauled to top by belayer. The only problem is getting one end down to the climber. As you know, one can and usually does walk off Half Dome - no rappel needed.
The winch allows enough friction to handle the line - which any normal belay device would not have.
:-)
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Apr 23, 2008 - 12:06pm PT
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Not you, not you, man. Hell, you'll set a bad example. Pretty soon we'll have guys bolting up blank walls all over the valley.
-TM Herbert to Royal Robbins in 1964 after RR used 38 bolts on the Prow.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 23, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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The Fet wrote: Not you, not you, man. Hell, you'll set a bad example. Pretty soon we'll have guys bolting up blank walls all over the valley.
-TM Herbert to Royal Robbins in 1964 after RR used 38 bolts on the Prow.
Those who preach are speaking to loud to hear what they saying.
Hypocrites!!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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Then why are you preaching ......
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ec
climber
ca
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Apr 23, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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from: Harding's "Downward Bound" I like the caption...
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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Apr 23, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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" Blowboarder,
Sorry I haven't called you yet. Not trying to be rude, I've just been maxed out."
Right. I'm sure whatever you've been up to is SO important.
j/k, glad your out of the hospital.
Check your email and try not to snort out (now snort up might be fun...) your pain pills when you read the bit about the invalidity of old school ethics because they were put up by d00ds wearing spandex tights.
For shame, trad-dads.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 23, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
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You can do better than that Werner...
Tell me how there is a higher force looking over Half Dome and that he will have the final say...
Royal, you, Scott and the likes are doing the preaching..not me.
I can easily accept other styles in climbing...unlike others here.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Apr 23, 2008 - 06:47pm PT
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Ok, so I've read like 90% of the posts here, and I really don't see what the big deal is. I, for one, will not be able to climb any part of that route in my wildest dreams. I might like to try one day...or not. But there's like a million other routes that I will never be able to touch. So what? Someone will be able to climb it. Good for them.
People get so hung up on ethics. Let it go. I don't see this route as a "sacralidge" at all. Spray painted graffiti, yes, but a climbing route? no. I read Doug's post. I don't think they did anything wrong at all. In fact, it sounds like they worked really hard on that route, so good job guys. Way to go.
Well, I'll admit that my mind is pretty warped, but that is my perspective from where I'm sitting. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. =I
[Local Beta Edit]: You know what is a big deal though? Man, they got this burger over at the Grand Sierra Resort (Old Hilton) that is like a pound and a half of beef, or something obnoxious like that, for $7.77! And, it even comes with a big 'ol pile of french fries. I mean Jeezus man, now that's a BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL! =)
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Apr 23, 2008 - 07:19pm PT
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"Royal, you, Scott and the likes are doing the preaching..not me.
I can easily accept other styles in climbing...unlike others here."
Atheists and agnostics preach too.
Telling us to accept, telling us why we should accept, telling us what we should accept: it's all preaching.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Apr 23, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
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the problem is rap bolting promotes more routes w/many bolts.
yosemite climbers have a "leave no trace" climbing style.
and a huge respect for all "GU" F.A's...
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Apr 23, 2008 - 07:31pm PT
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just to weigh in my thoughts here, when i first read the article and understood that they had rap bolted the upper half of the south face, i was not really bothered by it and didn't really give it a second thought. i've done a couple of ground up routes that petered out, at least for me, and they are bolts to nowhere. i can see the temptation to avoid that syndrome on such a big face by rappeling from above, and after it has been preinspected in this manner, well, the ground up adventure is lost forever, ya might as well rap bolt it.
after reading many, but not all of the post here, i still feel they didn't really do anything wrong. i was surprised by all the backlash that sean and doug have recieved. god, protesting over rap bolting is like, so nineteen-eighties. this war was lost a long time ago in tuolume when locals(tommy herbert, ron kauk) and visitors(craig reason, dan michaels) begun rap bolting some of the most difficult routes in tuolumne. i thought it would get out of hand, with rap bolters competing against ground up people, but in reality, there was room for both styles. kauk only did two rap routes on medlicott, and there is still room up there for the future badasses to employ either style. i don't think one rap route on half dome is going to change things.
werner talks about respecting the rock in a way that makes doug and sean look like they don't respect the rock, when in fact, i have to defend these guys and say hey, i think they respected the route and made their decisions out of not wanting to do a ground up botch job. although all my first ascents in Yosemite were done ground up, ground up slab bolting is a long last art, and i really would not ask to impose that style on anybody.
coz, werner, bachar, klaus, the kid, and others, i'm sorry you consider GROWING UP to be evilution, and you might be surprised by my opinion, but i just guess it is a sign of the times that i consider rap bolting to be acceptable in yosemite, and that once it is acepted, there really is no difference between rappeling the 600' medlicott dome, and the 2000' south face of half dome. curiously enough, i relayed this issue to my wife, heather, who was in the "shame on you" category about doug and sean. now i wonder in our divided household, how did she come about to have such a strong opinion on the matter?
Steve Schneider
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 23, 2008 - 08:21pm PT
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Steve
Thanks for the post. Tell your wife no more Rap Dancing for Bandaloop. Only ground up art from now on!
Peace
karl
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