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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 21, 2009 - 02:57am PT
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Roy;...maybe it's your diet;......I have a suggestion.....it's worth a try;....
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Feb 21, 2009 - 09:18am PT
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Todd/Cosmic
Now if that picture isn't AWESOME--just think of what
Bear 46 would do with a FRIED TWINKIE!!!!
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2009 - 02:54pm PT
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Don't miss this auction!
We have just begun gathering and already we have lined up signed JT guidebooks, vintage gear, new gear and unique memorabilia from "A List" famous climbers.
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Feb 21, 2009 - 03:56pm PT
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Drink a malted beverage.
Talk stacks of feces...
Mingle with the beautiful people...
"Ho, Man! Recount 'Old Man and the Sea'...a man paddles out and returns with nothing but rack of bones...and his pride."
Do your best KISS impersonation in Todd's living room...
Maybe even climb a rock.
Plus raw fish? What more could you ask for?
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Feb 21, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
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Ezra and Tar: wow really informative here. thanks for posting this info.
Tar, I have exactly the same symptoms that you have. I'm about 3 years into it. My symptoms include tinnitus and tingling with a numb-like feel of hands forearms face and bottoms of my feet. I work on a computer 8 hrs a day about 4 days a week for 6 years. I've had the same workup looking for the big neuro dx all negative and my adrenals looked like yours. I'm climbing fairly well and get this: I spent a month climbing etc (200 miles on foot) in the Khumbu this year and ALL my symptoms went away.What a relief! I had some new problems with cold in my hands though, but so did my partners. 10days back on the job ALL my symptoms returned in the same sequence that took 3 years to originally develop. Right now I'm 8 weeks into 3times weekly chiropractic program and no relief yet although my posture is really improving.
Lidocaine patches work for me short term as does a lot of ice. Sometimes I climb with a lidocaine patch on each arm and tape around the arm below the elbow and at the wrist for some short term support. I too have spent lots of time and cash on all kinds of treatments including accupuncture rolfing Bowen etc etc. Other injuries have healed but not this. I'm on the look for a new job of course but support 3 kids so that's a careful change.
Tar,thanks for posting this up. You have my best wishes for healing and finding the key to this thing.
Ezra, thanks for thinking about this , I have printed your replies to share with my doc who is really perplexed with this as I am. (I'm an RN by the way). so far it looks autonomic and that's about all anybody can say about it. One md suggestion was to do a lumbar puncture to look for lyme spirochette in the spinal fluid, although Borrelia antibodies neg and I can think straight.
all the best, LP
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 21, 2009 - 08:06pm PT
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Luckypink
Have you been ruled out for just classic carpel tunnel?
Best
-e
All the stuff about vasodilators and statins would only apply if you had increased homocystine levels, or some other thrombogenic condition.
Tar,
If you were to take statins you might have to use them for up to 2 years to notice a difference. Cialis might work same day, but it's just treating the symptoms and not the underlying problem, if microvascular occlusion is in fact you problem.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Feb 21, 2009 - 11:03pm PT
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yes, Ezra , I have only very mild carpal tunnel syndrome per the testing and no classic tingling such as two finger involvement or pain in the palm. My pain is above the wrist deep in the forearm so bad I can't hold a magazine at night after work. I do have a numb tingling feeling inside my mouth and tongue which gave the neurologist a reason to look for cns problems.
strange, huh.... my doc thought about the procardia but my bp is low anyway and my cholesterol panel is stellar. I know another climber that was having the pumped out forearm pain with poor grip and he had the surgery (shunts placed in both wrists) with great success but the doppler test was positive. Like Tar my grip is over 98 even with the symptom of pain and doppler is negative. Odd thing is IGM is over 500. I'm alot like Tar must have been a few years ago in terms of pain and function. My symptoms are slowly steadily worsening also, except for having that full month away from that huge electromagnetic field I work under, when every last one of my symptoms disappeared.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 21, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
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hey there .... wow tarbuster... sorry to hear all this....
hmm... but still, it looks like you are ruling out some very severe conditions, so perhaps that is good???
well, you know, no matter what it is, one thing for sure... if you cut out all foods that are full of additives, you will do your immune system good, at any rate...
cut out meats, too, and go for other protein for awhile...
when i did this, all the stiffness in my hands, stopped... i had never had this before, until i was eating all this when i stayed at a friends... also, cut-out all the bread, etc, as due to the dough conditions... etc...
drink lots of water, too...
hope this helps 'til you learn more....
(some folks say, that a chiropracter sets everything in line, and then the stiff arms, and hands get stronger, too----not saying to do this, but you ask others about it)...
now----as i was a bad ol' gal, and came in backwards, here, i will go back and see "what all is what"---thanks to a "note" from one of your friends, in another post, i just learned of all this:
being as i could not go to the benefit, i never had checked this thread yet---i have been too busy fixing a book, to stay on line much...
god bless and GET WELL soon, i WILL BE PRAYING.....
we GOT to have you well and climbing! :)
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:52am PT
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Carpel tunnel when it goes untreated;....
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 22, 2009 - 11:24am PT
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Don't know what to say lucky.
Maybe it's time for a new job in medicine?
-e
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 22, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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That's a pretty nasty case of carpal tunnel there Todd!
If I didn't know any better, I would say she was infected with a case of the screeming rugrats...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 22, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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Lucy Pink,
Thanks for joining in; I hope you get it figured out.
Maybe we do share some parallel symptoms.
Can’t hold a magazine at night after work? (I feel your pain, heh heh)
At least not holding it up that’s for sure, that’s much too demanding I understand.
I never hold anything in my hands for very long if I can avoid it; I certainly wouldn’t entertain holding a magazine up so I could read it.
Forget about reading in bed too yes?
I lay the reading material on the nightstand next to me & sleep on a wedge so I can look over at the pages.
Levenger, if they are still around, does make some reading assist devices, like platforms that hold the book/magazine in place in a hands-free fashion either in front of you or on your lap.
You said pain deep in the forearm muscle. Yes.
 Where our symptoms differ:
Mine present something like a focal myopathy; although I can’t be diagnosed with one.
You have additional symptoms of tingling/numbness in the arms and in your face, mouth & feet as well, while I never present with any nervy tingling whatsoever.
Another thing that Doppler will rule out is compartment syndrome, where the facia surrounding the muscle bears down on it, effecting a sort of suffocation. I have heard of one climber with that; anytime he tried to boulder his arms would become very painful and swell up. (it’s well known that compartment syndrome in the legs can constitute a medical emergency, as there is pressure on an artery, or something like that)
To handle your computering workload:
You could try Dragon NaturallySpeaking, a voice-activated software.
Go for the Pro version; I have 8.0, while Rick A was using version 10.0 when he had a damaged wrist.
It works very well for dictation, if you don’t mind copious editing, but the noise canceling microphone is a bit wanting if you have lots of coworkers making noise nearby, however, if you can isolate yourself, like in your own office, that helps quite a bit.
Navigating through various applications can be problematic and if you go onto forums concerning the program you will find people get pretty fed up with it in terms of its appetite for computer resources and the various bugs which it seems to have. It can also get clogged up and require periodic reloading. Perhaps the newer versions are better; it’s about 7 or $800.
Lucy, you mentioned you have isolated the electromagnetic component as having direct effect on your symptoms.
There are scads of products and procedures on the market and in use in therapy which attempt to address this electromagnetic component of our physiology.
As mentioned above, I have a device called NeuroSCENAR, which has translated manuals from the Russian (thanks Jay Breaux for your offer on divining those). It’s both diagnostic and therapeutic and highly detailed. I haven’t applied it yet; I could pay some money and attend some courses to learn how to use it…hopefully I wouldn’t have to use my hands to take too many notes…ha!
There’s a particular company that makes an electromagnetic mat, QRS, for about $4000.
This is fairly passive, although there is an active component to its use, and it was invented to delay the effects, or counteract the effects of osteoporosis in astronauts working in zero gravity for long periods of time. The claims extend to stimulation of cell functioning and metabolism, oxygen assimilation, and removal of toxins
Neebee mentioned dietary factors.
The ways in which you can tinker with diet are legion.
I’ve entertained an alkaline diet for quite some time.
I may have mentioned above chronic esophagitis: so a more alkaline internal ecology is the first move (also can help with inflammation), yet my doctor’s ideas about this is that it had to do with protein metabolism more than anything else. A barium swallow shows scarring, but the acute symptoms are largely in remission through a combination of dietary control and intestinal mucosa protocols.
Of course I never eat any processed foods, and with adrenals it’s important to watch the glycemic index of carbohydrates in particular.
I have isolated all kinds of proteins such as red meat and so forth.
Another obvious step which I haven’t completely engaged is cutting out dairy and instituting a gluten-free dietary regime.
Some of these things are at odds: fats from dairy and animals are very effective in mobilizing toxins, especially once they’re prepared for transport via other carefully engaged dietary protocols.
The key in staying with those things is to be heavily invested in intake only of certified organic foods so that no further pesticides, insecticides are dumped into the system, adding to the burden.
Oh well,
I went on a very long ski tour yesterday, skiing without poles is great for core strength!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 22, 2009 - 01:50pm PT
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Tar,
I would like to come and support you and meet all the ST crazies (and I'll gladly put myself in that camp --- I would be the one wearing the tin-foil hat).
Anyway, I have not gone through all the posts, so I don't know exactly what the condition is and what you really know about it or what you don't know about your condition.
However, my children have Celiac Sprue. It is a genetic disease and it won't ever go away. They got it from me, and my side of the family. I have the gene, but so far it hasn't expressed itself in my body yet. You can go through life, then wham! it can express itself out of the blue due to environment or stress. My blood work has to be checked on periodically to see if I'm developing it. So far, so good. Many people have it and they don't know it (approx. 1/100). They treat the symptoms but not the disease. Celiac can cause all kinds of very serious system problems and sometimes none of which appear to be related, but they are. It can even lead to blindness.
My children cannot have any Gluten. No wheat, barley, rye, or oats. Any other grain products they can have. You have probably seen in the grocery stores everywhere "Gluten Free" products. Many people are now becoming aware of it and their doctors as well.
Having Celiac, the Gluten destroys the cilia of the small intestine which means you are not absorbing the proper nutrients that your body needs, and then this can express itself in soooo many different ways.
It is important for everyone to get checked, just to make sure you don't have it. Go to a doctor who knows about Celiac really well. Some don't know about it yet or vaguelly and don't know the critical tests to be done. There is blood work to be done to see if you have the gene, then endoscopy is the gold standard to see if there is any damage to the small intestine.
It may not have anything to do with what you have, but you can easily check, and everyone should.
Celiac can be easily controlled with a gluten free diet. In fact some people have just gone to a Gluten free diet to see if works without the tests, and it has made all the difference in their lives. But you can't cheat the diet. If you do and you have Celiac, then damge happens no matter what.
I know what everyone is thinking, if I have Celiac then I can't drink beer anymore. Well, they make Gluten free beer. I just had a Belgium Gluten free beer the other night at a Gluten free pizza restuarant and if was really good. No problem.
Anyway, something to think about. You never know until you check it out.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 22, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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Klimmer,
Thanks for the rundown on Celiac.
Although my physician hadn't ruled that out by name, and I have not had an endoscopy, I'm quite sure he knows about the condition, given his focus.
In any event when I pass through the gluten-free portal, I'll know if that's a contributing factor.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Feb 22, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
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Tarbousier, I'm just now getting around to signing in to the Taco for the first time in a looooooooooong time 'cause I got this e in my inbox clueing me in to the Party.
Abby and I both send you LOTS of love and hugs and good thoughts and such from th southeast...
You know I'm not gonna be able to make it to Todds to hug your neck personally, but hoepfully someone there will pass one on for me to you...
Keep playin' in the snow and smiling your beautiful smile while (hopefully!) letting the rest of us make you feel good for a change!
Love to you...
BB (and AbbytheFruitBatDog, of course!)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 22, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
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Thanks for your sweetness BB!
Keep laying down tracks in them' flat water trails...
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 22, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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Come join in the fun;...hang around for awhile.......
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Feb 22, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
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Tar,
You were anti-gliadin antibodies negative so celiac is very unlikely.
The esophageal scarring makes me want you to see a rheumatology doc sooner rather than later. Esophageal scarring can possible related to an antibody positive rheumatologic condition.
best
-e
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Feb 22, 2009 - 07:48pm PT
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I may have miss-spoke in terms of scarring.
When I queried the doctor who interpreted the films, he described a mild thickening of the esophagus.
When I asked why, I believe he said the cause of this would have been irritation or inflammation but with no particular concern beyond what is a normal outcome from some degree of protracted acid reflux.
No further tests were recommended, nothing seen to indicate endosopy for Barrett's.
Does that alter your suspicion and recommendation?
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Feb 22, 2009 - 07:54pm PT
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Hey; Roy boy
Hang in there; you have a lot of friends.
Wish we could attend, but it is impossible at this time.
All the best.
Bruce.
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