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Badwaters
Big Wall climber
Alaska
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Aug 29, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
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Lovegasoline
Yep, Tasers are anything but nonlethal.
Cops shouldn't carry a Taser, true nonlethal methods of subduing suspected criminals are available.
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Badwaters
Big Wall climber
Alaska
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Aug 29, 2010 - 12:36pm PT
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Coz, you implied it was the rangers fault by saying:
One dead, two dead.
I read your post, it was painful.
Dano and Frank's deaths have absolutely nothing to do with Ammon's arrest. To bring up their stories in the way you did was clearly to imply the rangers had something to do with their deaths even when you say otherwise.
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Badwaters
Big Wall climber
Alaska
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Aug 29, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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I agree fattrad.
Why some people think because they're famous climbers (lame) they can somehow be treated in a special manner by LEO is astounding.
You play, you pay.
But the Taser needs to be dumped. I read you post regarding how using nonlethal force to subdue suspects prevents injuries and such, but Tasers do kill people on occasion.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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interesting story about the indians, 104. a recent thread on here about shiprock kinda opened my eyes about stuff like that. there has long been an official tribal ban on the climbing there, but lots of local indians are sympathetic to us and a couple of them have even tried it themselves.
just a suggestion here from a former newsman. there ought to be some kind of news release about the arrest that ought to be public record and which would help focus this discussion. it wouldn't necessarily jeopardize either ammon's case or the government's if the matter ever came to court. the government owes the public an official version of what it did. doesn't mean you have to believe it, but at least you won't have to speculate as wildly as you're doing here.
my only problem with BASE is that it can suck some really good partners away from climbing.
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:01pm PT
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Chris Rock video is funny, sad but great advice. If Robert Tolan had followed it, maybe he wouldn't have been shot - particularly the advice to have a white friend with you. But the advice is sound - if stopped by the man, submit and lick his jackboot. You are likely dealing with an undertrained, over-entitled young man with an itchy trigger finger.
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sunshinedaydream
Trad climber
the big granite bubble
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:06pm PT
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My my we are such a culture of REACTING.... where is the wisdom in all this?
Its ironic how Yosemite LEO's can go from heroes to criminals overnight on this forum. Who do you think will be there, no questions asked, when you (judgmental climbing community) break your femur, or skull on El Cap and need to be taken off and flown as quickly as possible out so you can get to surgery and live to climb another day?
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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Coz .. you said I would have felt differently if I had been tased for selling my photos... that is the point... I was busted for it and not tased... why? I didn't try to escape!! Had I ran I could have been tased for resisting arrest... not for selling photos! See.... run and you are resisting arrest so you get tased to stop you.... cooperate and you go to the jail, get your paperwork, go home.
That said... I was not there and maybe Ammon didn't run or do anything but stand there and they ganged up on him and tased him just to teach him a lesson ... I don't know and I am making the BIG ASSUMPTION that people aren't tased without some valid legal reason. I don't know anything factual and most of you don't either... speculation is something to fill our time until facts are known. Like I said before... none of the bashing and whining on this post makes the slightest difference... and of course Locker is right ... it is an open forum and every one is entitled to whine and bash all the want!!!
Best of luck to my friend Ammon....
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
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Once again Tom, an excellent post.
Maybe Ammon didn't have the best plan or the tightest secrecy?
Perhaps there is a mole amongst Ammons circle of friends that tipped off the LEOs?
Or what if...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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If you don't want to be 'mistreated' by LEO, don't break the rules. The 'rules' are in place for a reason (most of them). Some are just to make LEO jobs easier. Ones like 'no glass containers', are just for irresponsible punks, but can lead to folks like myself engaging in 'illegal activity'.
I break them on a regular basis, but you can't whine about it when you get 'caught'. You knew the rules! Ammon probably won't whine.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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Its ironic how Yosemite LEO's can go from heroes to criminals overnight on this forum.
Not ironic. Most rangers in the park are great guys, but some are tools, and were known tools for a long time. If you have ever been hardcore tooled in the park, then you might understand this. I have the deepest respect for many rangers. Others I think should be fired.
The only reason I have posted to this thread is to express my concern over the use of Tasers. I am also glad that we are having this discussion because I think Tom makes a valid point and helps me understand better. I also appreciate Base104s comments. When you run, you change the experience. But I still have doubts of using a Taser to stop someone from running away from a ticketable offense.
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Badwaters
Big Wall climber
Alaska
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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Coz.
I read you post(s). I don't need anyone to explain juvenile drivel, thanks.
Most cowards like you back of when its clear you've lost due to deep ignorance.
You very clearly didn't take the higher road when you made an effort to imply the rangers had something to do with Dano and Franks death and then went on to say then we have Ammon getting Tasered. You cannot escape the fact you made an effort to imply the rangers had a hand in both of those deaths.
"Now Ammon, taser in the back of the neck with a wing suit on. Could have been three dead, and for what? Base jumping! Not rape, murder, armed robbery but base and rope jumping." coz
Could have been three dead?? In your own words.
Ammon was Tasered, and you have absolutely no reason to say he was Tasered for BASE jumping. The facts will come out and more than likely he resisted arrest.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 29, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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it is We who impower our law enforcement officers.
We decide how they should operate.
not the leo at each individual station.
germany is That a way.
We do not like it when the people We pay for F*#k Up.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 29, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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fatty, you have any evidence photos from that "bust" ?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Aug 29, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Most "people" lack the common sense Chris Rock is describing.
In this thread, Fatty portrays comedic hyperbole as "common sense."
"A white friend can be the difference between a ticket and a bullet in the ass."
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 29, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
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Fatty brought one of those blond chicks down to the crag,
must have been some plea bargaining going on, now i get it.
here's fatty on the way to the bust,
no seat belts, thats a 10 dollah fine rite dere>
so when will it be safe to climb in the park again?
did they catch the ranger who did this?
is he locked up yet?
they have a jail right there in the park, ya know.
been there many a time,
illegal firefall from the pt,
trundling a landslide into mirror lake,
you name it, been there, done that,
sexual assault on a beagle, oh yeah.......
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 29, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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so if we tazer an officer, it is not attempted murder on a police officer?
only assault on a peace officer?
either way, it's a cavity search,
all the cops wear blue gloves in my hood.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
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They are a product of their environment and,like most humans, are not any more capable of critical thinking and leaderhip than a rock.
What a pile of shit!
Are you serious with that generalization?
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 29, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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Fattrad - let me see if your sheriffs department has any credibility...
"....Some nice citizens of Malibu complain about nude sunbathers in this tiny cove which is out of view of the families (Pirates Cove/Pt Dume Climbing). They complain to the captain of the station, who tells me and a few other deputies to go arrest everyone naked on that beach."
 ok.. citizen has problem. Goes to sheriff, blah, blah, blah, make it stop. Sheriff, a real reactionary, but being only one person, has flunkies who follow orders without question to arrest other good citizens...
The problem?
Who said it was illegal? Any signs? Why not move to get signs made, go to the beach and roust the naked folks letting them know that the police have been getting complaints, and to please not to the sunbathing here, meanwhile, signs are being made, next day, post the sign, then, if anyone gets naked, you have every right to arrest...
But no.. that's not how it works in your part of that departments... and this is the problem, pretty much across the board in America. Let me guess.. more conservatives/repugs than anything else in that town? (don't tell me.. I'm wrong in every way, on everything.. Except this is what you described to us.. )
"So, sixty people are marched up the hill, put into a jail bus and driven all the way downtown because "The People" had spoken."
And you want along with it, without thought, without question.. you just wne along with it whether it was right, wrong, American, or Unamerican.. you followed orders..
"Most "people" lack the common sense Chris Rock is describing."
ha!!!
I'd have to include a few police officers, and captains with this lumping in of most "people" (I'm assuming that when you put quotes around "people" you mean white, non-prisoner, believers on god, and so on... and not any "others")
"Oh, and I had better things to do, like get womens #'s on the beach."
good to know you had your head in the right place, even when peoples rights were being violated by the state/local police.. And you were such a catch....
good call fattrad. good call. Something to proud of. Put it in a memoir!
cheers
Post Edit: Too bad people insist on sending me over to facebook...
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
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Riley you keep on saying he was tased for jumping off a rock... seems like a broken record to me.... I think he was tased for resisting arrest but I have no basis for that in fact... just seems far more likely to me. Others who have gotten caught, Fernando for instance, was not tased but was arrested, paid a fine, lost his chute, had to stay out of the park for some time... why wasn't he tased if your assertion that base jumpers get tased is true? Do you know of ANY OTHER base jumpers who have been tased?
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