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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 14, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Mexico's guns come from the US.
Hedge you really do just believe what you read in the media! I'm sure you have the capacity to think on your own.
The root or incentive of criminal activity and resulting violence has nothing to do with the tools ultimately used. If you could wave a magic wand over Detroit and magically remove all the firearms, which we can't, you'd still be able to stack the bodies every month.
A HUGE cause of criminal activity is the war on the illicit drug trade which we know does little or nothing to stem the flow of drugs. What about changing that dynamic to reduce crime? Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what? Insider trading?
Think a little bit Hedge...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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If killing has little to do with the tool used, then why do some cling so tightly to their guns?
Because we all know it does matter. Guns can do more damage to more people in a far shorter time than say a rock. Or a knife. Or a hammer. Or a fist.
And those who argue differently then why not get rid of your gun and protect yourself with a branch? or a golf club? Or a hammer? After all, if a madman can kill as effectively with any weapon as has been alleged, then you should be able to defend yourself as effectively with any weapon as well. Right?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
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Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what?
Marijuana or other drugs
(State Prisons, Drug Offenders by Race) The most serious offense for 237,000 sentenced prisoners in state facilities at the end of 2010 was a conviction involving illegal drugs. Of this total: 69,500 (29.3%) were non-Hispanic white, 105,600 (44.6%) were non-Hispanic black and 47,800 (20.2%) were Hispanic.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/p11.pdf
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 14, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
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The non Hispanic Caucasian murder rate in the US is 1.6/100k. Less than Belgium, 1.7/100k.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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Look it up for yourself
DOJ and UN stats.
Took about 3 min to find on Google.
Maybe you need to get a "grip" on yourself.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
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Yes,
it is quite clear and good to point out that NON WHITE people do most of the killing
Really, the reasons have to do with their "ethnicity" and "culture"
For example, Ron Anderson has thoughtfully pointed out that many of the ILLEGALS, or brown skinned males from south of the US border, grew up in a CULTURE of lawlessness, and so when they sneak over here they do of course act lawlessly, like in GANGS.
But to TGT's point, it is NON WHITE people that are mostly doing the crimes, the murders.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had no idea of course.
Are YOU, TGT, a white person by chance?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
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"Roughly 1 out of 10 black males is in prison. Any guesses for what? Insider trading?"
And what the hell is this supposed to imply?
Would you like to tell us why you think this is?
Good Lord Christ! They left you hanging up there too long! Breath man!
People are wondering what to do about lowering violent crime rates in this country. I'm pointing out that our own drug laws are at the very root of much of that violence.
Instead, simple fear, pumped up by the largely useless media machine has everyone focused on the means, the tools for the end result of violence. And not even the right tools used in the vast bulk of that violence, which would be handguns.
So the clamor is for more laws, more restrictions, yada yada yada. Laws that only the lawful obey on specific weapons/magazine sizes that aren't part of the criminal violence problem which just makes no sense.
It's the perfect situation for those who wish to exploit it. People fear a mass-murdering madman killing little white children in Newtown. "That just doesn't happen here". They fear that much more than the 20+ inner city black and Hispanics killed today, oh and tomorrow too and the day after that. Every day in fact. I'm sure someone will correct my math.
Look at your own numbers you love to quote. Think.
We can never stop a madman killing the softest random targets he can find. Only figuring out why they went psychotic if that's even possible. There are limitless ways to kill masses of innocents if you have no regard for yourself. Firearms are pretty low on that list if bodycount and suicide are the goals.
What we CAN have some impact on is the bulk of typical targeted criminal violence. Again addressing the root of the violence is the key. And here some enforcement of legislation 'might' make a small difference. Better licensing, better background checks, much bigger mandatory penalties for strawman purchases.
Oh wait... 8 more Blacks/Hispanics just got murdered in Detroit. What??!! No CNN article?!! No new SuperTaco thread???? THE OUTRAGE!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 14, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
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Are those correct statistics or not?
Are murder rates are primarily culturally driven, or not?
Why isn't "white redneck gun culture" top on the list?
I'll bet if you did a statistical analysis of government dependency versus murder rate you'd find about a one to one correlation and when you controlled for that, race was no longer a factor.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
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it seems unlikely that those numbers could have come from DOJ in that FBI does not keep Hispanic victimization numbers, and BJS' NCVS talks to victims (hence no homicide stats).
You can go to the CDC and use Wisqars which is based on NVSS death certificates to get both Hispanic origin and Race (among other things). Go here for that:http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html.
A quick use of their fun and easy online tool shows:
For 2010, the homicide rate (any cause) for NH Whites is: 2.52 per 100,000.
For 2010, the homicide rate from firearms for NH Whites is: 1.39 per 100,000.
For 2010, the homicide rate (any cause) for NH Blacks is: 19.47 per 100,000.
For 2010, the homicide rate from firearms for NH Blacks is: 15.34 per 100,000.
Lesson is, don't be born black. :/
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
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Also, often if one does control for income, racial differences in some victimization types go away. For instance in IPV.
Poor people do poorly - higher victimization rates, higher arrest rates, higher conviction rates, higher incarceration rates - all of these even when one controls for other important factor.
Problem is that blacks are over-represented among the poor.
Don't be born poor either.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
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I was born poor. You should see the 'hoods we called home.
( google map THIS address: " 1258 east 73rd st, Los Angeles, CA " That was my first house. We lived there until my sister was born. You'll be hard pressed to find a worse place to live anywhere in the U.S. A short walk to Florence and Normandie. There was a riot in '65 when we lived there )
Being born poor doesn't mean you stay poor. Making poor choices in life will make sure you stay poor.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
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Chaz, be thankful you were able to make those choices... be thankful those choices were there for you to make... be thankful you were white.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
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Sorry, Mr Kos. Where was your first house?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
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Being born poor doesn't mean you stay poor. Making poor choices in life will make sure you stay poor.
True. It doesn't. But being poor puts a lot more hurdles in the way than being non-poor. I too came from a very modest background. But I had a lot of advantages just by being white and female. Plus although I lived in a not-rich place, there were jobs I could get (and I did starting at age 14). Plus, my area had public transportation and even a library! Not everyone who is poor has those opportunities. And those opportunities mean something.
Making poor choices doesn't help either. Having a parent, or a teacher or a dear friend or family member that helps teach good choices is critical. Lots of very poor people have those people in their lives, but they don't know how to make good choices and they can't teach how to do it either. I was really really lucky to run into some awesome mentors along the way. Not everyone has that luck.
All else being equal, anyone here rather be born to poor parents or rich parents? All else being equal, anyone here rather be born to parents who can and do make wise choices or those who cannot?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
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There are a very few things, that if done, will cut your chances of living in poverty down to alomst nothing.
BEFORE you have kids, get a job ( even a minimum wage job ) and get married. That's it. A recipe as old as life itself.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
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I thought for sure that Chaz would advise us to get a donkey, a goat, and a doberman. And maybe a fruit tree of some sort.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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Even moreso - don't have kids!
Easy to tell someone to do, but then again, in some impoverished areas there are no places to go to lessen that chance.
And that boils down to making good choices. If a person's parents and everyone around them has kids, the child may not realize NOT having kids is an option. Sounds silly, but it is true. I didn't realize that, I thought everyone just had kids. I thought I'd end up having kids even though I didn't want them. But no one seemed to really want their kids. It's just the way it went.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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Hey, I was impressed to hear that Obama has called and talked to each family from the school for no less than 45 minutes. And seems to really care about doing something to deal with this problem. Good luck! Hope you guys get good results!
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 15, 2013 - 12:06am PT
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Throughout 9 years of university I never put the same ethnicity on my applications/paperwork. It was amusing!
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