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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 17, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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John wrote: Anders, I greatly respect the CBO, but not the rules Congress insists they follow. The issue wasn't what the CBO did, it's what they were told to do -- and the press's failure to tell the truth.
John
Funny...were where you on this...http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=966
Two wars, major recession, tax cuts that didn't work, 5,000 troops DEAD, countless Iraq's DEAD, millions of Iraq's displaced and the almost collapse of the American financial system.
You sense of what is right and justifiable is slightly twisted.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 17, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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John, it surprises me how you are dismayed by how the press & Congress played these games with the HR bill (rightfully so, I might add), yet try to differentiate it from how a very similar process was used to accomplish the GOP's agenda. An agenda, mind you, that was based in half-truths, poor intel, and poorly executed (there's that word again).
In both cases, the process was political, to serve one party's agenda. Why make a distinction that in the case of the Bush administration, the ends justified the means, while in the case of HR, great injustices have occurred?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 17, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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Had the western democracies dealt with Hitler when he occupied the Rhineland...
But the conservative prime minister Chamberlain had a scrap of paper!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 17, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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Right you are, Gary. That's why today's American conservatives are the defenders of liberal democracy.
John
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 17, 2010 - 05:07pm PT
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John wrote: That's why today's American conservatives are the defenders of liberal democracy.
How right you are...religion in public school, no gay marriages, corporations with more rights than citizens. :-)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 17, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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Fatty said the problem is that the Dems don't have the courage to take on ambulance chasing lawyers or plastic surgeons.
Two problems with that. Well ok three.
1. That's not the reimbursement system.
2. The CBO says that tort reform will decrease costs by something like 2% (because it's not tort that is driving up costs, its our shitty reimbursement system)
3. Obama said that he would include tort reform in the original HCR bill if Repubs wanted to play ball (but they didn't)
Continuing to pretend that it's the Dems that "won't do anything" when the Republicans are literally making "we won't let anyone do anything" their party line is a little callow.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 17, 2010 - 05:42pm PT
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Now there's a real sign of desperation and defeat.
The election is still four months away and you are all ready spinning your inevitable drubbing as something other than the will of the people and the expression of their exasperation with Dem incompetence
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 17, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
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Now there's a real sign of desperation and defeat.
The election is still four months away and you are all ready spinning your inevitable drubbing as something other than the will of the people and the expression of their exasperation with Dem incompetence
And the real irony is that the "incompetence" was leaving the Bush appointees in the MMS. I mean this is literally what we said on this very forum in 2006 was going to happen. 2008 would swing to the Dems who would be left to clean up the colossal mess from the previous decade and then the Repubs would score points pretending it was all the Dem's fault.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 17, 2010 - 06:24pm PT
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MH,
A couple of weeks ago I posted a link which disclosed that the Canadian government was going to reduce health care benefits, likely just the first cut of several on the way.
one thing about spending money on health care is that it means jobs, local jobs, and health care denied or delayed just creates necessary and increased costs later.
Now war, on the other hand, flushes money down a foreign toilet, and increases costs later in veteran's health care for long term injuries
yet the GOP whines about spending money on health care, that we all need to save or help our lives, but doesn't whine about war costs, which have provided only loss and pain for us all and for others
Shame
Peace
Karl
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 17, 2010 - 07:38pm PT
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I'll post this again...Two wars, major recession, tax cuts that didn't work, 5,000 troops DEAD, countless Iraq's DEAD, millions of Iraq's displaced and the almost collapse of the American financial system.
Oh...and over 3.5 million jobs lost under Bush.
Yes...you republicans did a great job with your power.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 17, 2010 - 07:57pm PT
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Ricky,
The CBO estimates were distorted by at least the following:
1. Static analysis of revenue;
2. Assuming that reimbursement reductions would take place; and
3. Using Ten years of revenue to pay for less than ten years of outlay.
Only point 3 gets corrected in the long term. Again, the CBO analysis is correct in that it properly manipulates the numbers. The incorrect concepts are the instructions of the congressional majority, not the fault of the CBO.
The CBO says that tort reform will decrease costs by something like 2% (because it's not tort that is driving up costs, its our shitty reimbursement system)
Really? Where does it say that. The studies I've seen quoted most often say unnecessary testing and "defensive medicine" generally drive our poor cost performance. The 2% figure I've seen relates to how much costs would drop if we could control malpractice insurance premiums. That is only a very small cost of our poor tort system. Without tort reform, you can't deal with the excess cost of defensive medicine.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 17, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
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bluerings article said According to one report, an ACORN employee said the purpose of “[f]raudulent cards” was “[t]o cause confusion on election day to keep polls open longer,” “[t]o allow people who can’t vote to vote,” and “[t]o allow to vote multiple times.”
You realize that by law they are required to turn in all voter registration regardless of what it says, right? They aren't allowed to throw away someone's voter registration card even if it's obviously fake (and if they did I'm sure you would scream bloody murder about that too).
Interestingly, there has still yet to be a case where someone was convicted of voting multiple times on election day, even after Bush sent his crew out looking.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jun 17, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
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OMG the evil and omniscient ACORN. Able to sway whole elections with a single Donald Duck.
I thank God and my lucky stars that we have the wise and beneficent Diebold to keep us safe in our perfect Democracy. What's on Fox tonight?
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Nohea
Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
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Jun 17, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
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My 10th graders can connect the majority of todays problems with intervention, study a little harder gang or call yourself the winner...Champ!
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Seriously, Man, I didn't know she was Your sister.
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Jun 17, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
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You 'Tards NEVER give up, huh?
Poor Bastards......................Cheers.
Edit: Hahaha, Wil, you're reading my mind, over here.
Grins!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 17, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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ACORN has been accused of voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. There's a pretty big difference.
But BUSH stole an election, right? Or are you gonna change your weak-ass story????
You guys are priceless!
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