Rancher +Militia vs BLM,trouble on the range.(OT)

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philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Apr 21, 2014 - 02:30pm PT

Meanwhile in the real world.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/04/conservatives-d/

Conservatives Decry Homeland Security Report on “Rightwing” Extremism
By Caitlin Taylor
Apr 15, 2009 9:45am
Yesterday, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich tweeted that "The person who drafted the outrageous homeland security memo smearing veterans and conservatives should be fired."
Gingrich was referring to this report prepared by the Department of Homeland Security’s Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division, and coordinated with the FBI.
As Fox News has reported, DHS also issued a study of the threat of leftwing extremists (read it HERE.) But the report on the rightwing extremists is the one attracting heat in the conservative bloggosphere, from Gingrich, Michelle Malkin, Powerline, and elsewhere.
The report states that while DHS "has no specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence…rightwing extremists may be gaining new recruits by playing on their fears about several emergent issues."
DHS defines "rightwing" as "broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."
The "emergent issues," the DHS report states, include both "the election of the first African American president" and "a prolonged economic downturn—including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability to obtain credit," which DHS says "present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization and recruitment."
"A recent example of the potential violence associated with a rise in rightwing extremism may be found in the shooting deaths of three police officers in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on 4 April 2009," the report states. "The alleged gunman’s reaction reportedly was influenced by his racist ideology and belief in antigovernment conspiracy theories related to gun confiscations, citizen detention camps, and a Jewish-controlled ‘one world government.’"
Other potential dynamics that could help these groups’ recruitment, the report states, included proposed "imposition of firearms restrictions and weapons bans" and the debate over illegal immigration.
"Over the past five years, various rightwing extremists, including militias and white supremacists, have adopted the immigration issue as a call to action, rallying point, and recruiting tool," the report states. "Debates over appropriate immigration levels and enforcement policy generally fall within the realm of protected political speech under the First Amendment, but in some cases, anti-immigration or strident pro-enforcement fervor has been directed against specific groups and has the potential to turn violent."
The report states concern that returning "veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists," who may attempt to recruit and radicalize the veterans "in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today."
"After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military veterans—including Timothy McVeigh—joined or associated with rightwing extremist groups," the report states. "A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that ‘large numbers of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces. The FBI noted in a 2008 report on the white supremacist movement that some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups."
Sean Hannity and Dr. James Dobson chatted about this report on Fox News last night, which Hannity interpreted as targeting "people who think maybe we’re not controlling our borders" and "people who have pro-life bumper stickers."
“What do you think of that interpretation, especially coming from a guy that started his political career in the home of an unrepentant terrorist who bombed our Pentagon and Capitol and sat in Reverend Wright’s church for 20 years?” Hannity asked.
Dobson said "there are no Timothy McVeighs out there right now. They’re making a big deal out of something that hasn’t happened and may not happen."

jpt

jstan

climber

Apr 21, 2014 - 02:48pm PT

In the Ukraine,several African countries, Afghanistan, the US, to mention a few, we have organized armed militia executing their own will. This is not new. Consider the Alamo or events during the Civil War here. Do not expect this to be pretty and do not expect equity to be served.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 02:58pm PT

Anarchy is awesome!

USA USA USA... except when I disagree... in which case BLOODY REVOLUTION!

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 03:12pm PT

Don't you have some guns to sell Ron?

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Apr 21, 2014 - 03:28pm PT

Even retarded Joe Biden approves of that purchase Ron!

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 03:32pm PT

WHO may i ask is ASKING for a civil war?? No one i know, not even members of my brigade..Some of you seem far gone down a road, and its not me.

Most of these ignorant fukwads seem to really, really, really want a civil war. They don't appear to be asking, but rather demanding one at gun point.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/20/world-through-militia-eyes/

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Apr 21, 2014 - 03:48pm PT

I guess now that you are an official Un-American Oaf Creeper that "Buying American" ain't what it used to be eh?

I wonder if Ron ever met a guy he wouldn't sell a gun to?

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:12pm PT

Dude, it was all laid out clearly by our founding fathers... we have 3 branches of government... a system of checks and balances... when you disagree with one or more, you take up arms to assert your position.

Pretty simple really.

blahblah

Gym climber

Boulder

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:13pm PT

This was a slightly interesting link:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/20/world-through-militia-eyes/

When the group got to the two interstate bridges, militiamen took to high ground on the southbound bridge, pointing their guns into the wash, just in case a firefight broke out. Below the other bridge, BLM agents in full tactical gear had rifles pointed at as many as 1,000 supporters standing in protest, according to eyewitness accounts.

Mostly just skimmed it, but it does appear that the federal agents violated the NV statute Kos posted regarding it being illegal to point guns at people. I'm sure that the statute would not apply to a LEO in the lawful performance of his duties (just as it wouldn't apply to someone properly engaging in self defense of defense of others). But it's hard to see how cops pointing guns at peaceful protesters is lawful. At least I hope it's not.

The public would probably be better served if the protesters engaged in illegal conduct (assuming there were some) were arrested, likewise with the federal agents.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:17pm PT

"Peaceful" protesters don't show up with arsenals.

Your really stretching Blahblah.
But keep your eye on the prize we know it'll fit.

Or if you prefer you could join Ron's Brigade.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:23pm PT

The public would probably be better served if the protesters engaged in illegal conduct

The public would definitely be better served if the protesters didn't threaten the LEGAL land owners with VIOLENCE when they attempted to execute a COURT ORDER to remove the ILLEGAL cattle from their land.

Anarchy.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:44pm PT

Sure, as long as you have the proper fire permit.

dirtbag

climber

Apr 21, 2014 - 04:50pm PT

The BLM took back hoes and dump trucks in and across the "endangered desert tortoise" habitats to dig up and ruin all the water improvements that were put their LEGALLY. They had no court order to do so. They then body slammed a 59 yr old woman to the ground- and also had no PC or legal right to do that. They then told of, and were recorded,, the orders they had to shoot anyone attempting to set free cattle in a temporary holding pen contrary to EVERY law enforcement agency in America. They were "authorized" to shoot ANYONE there with a gun, contrary to NV state laws...

Specifically, under what legal authority were these improvements put in place?

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Apr 21, 2014 - 05:04pm PT

Nobody is pointing guns at cops, Mr Kos. How do I know this, being no closer to Nevada than you are? Because nobody has been shot, which is what happens to people who point guns at cops.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber

mammoth lakes ca

Apr 21, 2014 - 05:16pm PT

The women taking pics of the sniper in the back ground is funny...Oh look , there's a sniper , put him on you tube...

HermitMaster

Social climber

my abode

Apr 21, 2014 - 05:16pm PT

200+ heavily armed federal agents show up to collect grazing fees and the clowns here on this stupid forum, focus on Bundy and a militia that never fired a shot...

Utterly pathetic....

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Apr 21, 2014 - 05:20pm PT

Mr Kos writes:

"I'm sure he's aiming at the dirt."

It's impossible to tell what he's aiming at. I know what he's not aiming at; Cops. I know that because people who aim guns at cops are shot ( or arrested, or both ), and nobody there was shot or arrested.

blahblah

Gym climber

Boulder

Apr 21, 2014 - 05:23pm PT

This whole notion of "the cops get to point their guns, so I can too" is idiotic.

Agreed. But I don't think anyone said that on this thread, at least that I'm aware of.

You don't point guns at cops.

It's that simple.

//ARGUMENT BY REPETITION
argumentum ad nauseam

(also known as: argument from nagging, proof by assertion)

Description: Repeating an argument or a premise over and over again in place of better supporting evidence.

Logical Form:

X is true. X is true. X is true. X is true. X is true. X is true... etc//

See http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/50-argument-by-repetition

As a heuristic, I agree that not pointing guns at cops is good one! Even more so when your goal is to live, not to vindicate legal rights.

But you do have a right to defend yourself and others against unlawful actions taken by cops. As well as being obvious, people have posted cases on this thread where that has properly occurred (or at least where courts have acknowledged that it could be a viable defense, depending on the facts).
Arguing this point is silly; we both know you have a right to defend yourself (and others) under appropriate circumstances, even when the aggressors happen to be cops. I know you think that isn't what happened here, you may well be right, I don't know.

Here's a question: why didn't the feds didn't arrest the "protesters"?