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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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"Shakey Flakes" (5.11a) on Royal Arches would be a good project to retro-bolt with 3/8th. Seems like it was one of the routes to do over there and the bolts always looked pretty puny.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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"allowed to power drill" ha ha ha!
Yes, although maybe there are some exceptions (probably bolt regulations not how they are installed).
In Europe, the concept of "wilderness" kind of disappeared a few centuries ago, with only some above-treeline areas even approaching the low human impact that we have in many Wilderness areas of the western US.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Bruce, Chris McNamara & a friend replaced most of Shaky Flakes around '98 or so, but they were unable to locate the bolt that the Korean dude pulled in the big fall the previous year (pulled with his hand when he grabbed the draw), and so at least one bolt (crux bolt?) is probably missing. They climbed (& replaced most/all of?) Rambler to get up there.
We replaced the first pitch of your route Midlife Crisis about 6 or 7 years ago, but didn't get higher (that "hard-to-find-partner" thing again). Nice ledge at the top so we pulled one original bolt while clipped into just one old one, then replaced, so all those bolts were done in the original holes.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dan U just reported there is a bolt missing from the first pitch of the Rambler (at the Hole)
Rambler has had bolts replaced if I remember. Wonder what about the Hole?
Peace
Karl
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Most folks - if I recall - usually only do the first 2 pitches of Shakey Flakes anyway. Good to know that you guys at least got that part re-installed with 3/8th". The so-called 5.9 first pitch is where you could take a real dumper and hit the ground if a bolt failed. Those old bolts always looked kinda tiny to me.
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Alan Doak
climber
boulder, co
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There's a bit of runout slab activity in Boulder too. Jules Verne 5.11b/c R in Eldo is superclassic with a long history of sending climbers on a 30-40 foot ride. Superslab in Eldo is runout 10c/d and gets done quite often.
Roger Briggs had a great quote about his 1980's Archaeopteryx (5.11d X) in the old Rossiter guidebook: "It's a shame that noone seems to have repeated it, it's actually a great route."
As a result of the bolting ban in Eldo, there's been several 5.11X thin face/slab routes put up in Eldo in recent years. Same with the flatirons.
Birds of Fire in Rocky Mountain National Park has some gorgeous 5.10 runout slab on pristine granite. And Childhood's End has some runout 5.10 slab on it, along with well bolted .12a slab.
Granted, most of these routes aren't the endless granite friction slabs that California enjoys (Rambler is one of my favorite routes ever), but some of them compare.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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What about the S. Platte in CO? There have to be some run-out bolted slab climbs there that are both long and committing?
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Bruces : talked to Donnie about route exclusions @ the Arches - apparently the Park Service wanted to discourage climbing at certain easily accessible,high profile " Cliff Interface Biospheres ". They pressured him to exclude several areas in the Valley including Lower Falls Amphitheater,Upper Falls Wall and Chapel Wall East as well as aforementioned Lower Arches or they would not sell his book @ Valley concessions. BULLSH#T/CENSORSHIP!!
I may have mentioned this before but I started the DDNB (very toe of the North Buttress of Middle). The Gnar Gnar 12a is only one pitch protected by 7 bolts (1/4 inch of course) but to my knowledge - unrepeated. C'mon you slabbers .....time to man up!!!
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Go replace the bolts with beefy 3/8 inchers Al and I will pony up. Until then, not a chance.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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I agree with you A-Dude. But I smell $$$ about that Lower Falls Amphitheater exclusion from Donny's guide. Perhaps, the Park Service was afraid of offending those who think that seeing climbers next to the Falls is an intrusion into the natural environment? There was some funding at stake over there, I seem to recall. Old maxim: When in doubt look for the cash motive.
Castle Rock State Park unofficially tried to intimidate me into not including the Green Monster and Heliport areas in the Rock Climbers Guide to Skyline Boulevard (2000). Threatening phone calls from third parties. Nasty messages on my answering machine. Of course, I wouldn't budge an inch. Then anonymous individuals visited local REIs trying to tell them not to carry the Guide. REI told them to get lost. My contract was with the main office up in Washington, so they only made fools of themselves.
But that's what I mean. These characters are not above playing hardball and attacking the first amendment. Guide books are so much fun!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Bruce: "When in doubt look for the cash motive". As in like follow the money, eh?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I don't think the NPS thinks "the viewshed" from the Falls bridge is a money issue. They just study those concepts in Resource Management classes and apply it to the Falls area. They probably think the public should pay attention to the falls and not climbers. Who knows what really interests them. Probably varys a bit although I've never seen any tourists offended by climbers being visible.
The area above the Falls Trail is probably closed so rocks don't fall down on the trail at the base.
I've always scratched my head about the other closure on the right arches. Could be some archeological sites over there or something.
Peace
karl
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The closure of the Peanut area is mystifying. There's some small risk of climbers dropping gear, themselves, their trousers, or bad language. I suspect it's nominal in comparison with the risk of rockfall from the extensive cliffs above - the whole area below the Peanut is a giant talus slope, and guess where it came from?
The tourists I talk with in Yosemite generally find climbers interesting and photogenic. Bear #46 not being available, I've even had my picture taken with some, or been asked to take tourist pictures. There probably are a few who see climbers as unsightly and unwanted, but for most we seem to provide local colour. The panting hikers on the Falls trail may well welcome an excuse to stop for a breather, and watch some climbers.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I agree that most hikers seem to enjoy watching climbers climb.
It probably gets stickier when they start watching climbers drill.
Or when people go with the hot pink runners 150 feet above the trail.
I don't mind if you need to really want to be there that extra bit that it takes to hunt down the (easy to find) info if that's what it takes for us to have unrestricted access to pretty much any rock in the park including that rock.
We actually were climbing in a 'removed area' last weekend. There were only a few intrepid winter hikers, but they all were interested in whatever it was that we were doing and stopped to talk to us as we had lunch and shoed up.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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I do think there was some grant money involved with improvements below the Falls amphitheatre area. Not publishing topos may have been associated with obtaining the money. Dunno. Just a suspicion.
"Moving Like a Stud" and "Benzoin & Edges" has always mystified me, too, unless it was simply an attempt to use power to use power. Fascist logic? To retain power you must exercise it.
Now, the "Green Monster" area, for instance, does have the smell of money. The Sepervirens Fund did collect $15 million from public donations to buy that parcel for the State Park from the San Lorenzo Water District down in Felton. However, the Fund only paid the District around $4 million for it, which leaves about $11 million unaccounted for in the Funds' war chest. Question: Who's playing with all that money?
Now, you could visit the Green Monster if there was an official trail to go there. But since the Climbing Management Plan is still uncompleted after 9 years, the Trail Plan has not been started on. Therefore, because the Green Monster is in the Natural Preserve, you cannot go there. Circular logic.
Guide books = politics.
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pro_alien
Sport climber
Zurich, Switzerland
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The green monster - certainly a character building approach... The climbing isn't that great, though. Kudos on keeping it in the guide anyway.
Pascal
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I've found led-out slab climbing to be a great way for two climbers of different strengths and experience levels to both have an exciting day on the stone.
The stronger climber leads and the run-outs keep the action interesting, and yet the weaker climber isn't limited so much my strength and the runouts don't matter for them.
Worked for me in the past.
Peace
Karl
See, I said the whole thing while avoiding sexist concepts like "Girlfriend" Now I can't be flamed!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Yea, the Green Monster is even a slab. I remember the one time we went down there and did a couple of the routes that the walk back out (by moonlight) was equal to leading "Leanie Meanie" at Arch Rock, old style, with big hexes. A real oxygen-debt high combined with stinging nettles in the creek bottom - a truly memorable descent and return trip. It must be even more "fun" now since the "Charlie Steps" have washed out after 10 years of rain.
I think I'm going to include it in the next guide, too, in a separate section titled "Areas-In-Doubt".
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Dec 11, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
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Roger: I really enjoyed your information on the history of runout face climbing. Could you discuss the effects that drugs had on the scene? You say the following are reasons for long runouts: ego, lack of money, dusting off lesser lights, fear of retribution, ‘Murdering the Impossible,’ and bolts not being a part of ‘clean climbing’. Shouldn't some reference be made to the influence that drugs had on the runout style? (I don't know what "dusting off lesser lights" is, maybe it's a code word for drugs? I didn't read this entire thread so maybe drugs have been discussed. If so I apologize. John Robinson
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