Armed Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1341 - 1360 of total 2571 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 29, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
btw, Survival, that human IQ on average is 100 is also factual. That a third or more of Americans believe in the Second Coming of God Jesus is also factual.

I didn't say that was incorrect. But for you to be "smarter", and then jump into a comment that the average ST poster is 10-15% lower than the national average, on a thread that has, in general, been informative and reasonably well behaved, isn't necessary.

Let's keep it even keeled if we can. Werner is a super valuable and smart human being, but he can't wait to talk down to people sometimes. With his background, and all the sh#t he's been through and seen, I kinda get it.

But it would just be so easy for all of us to take a slightly higher road.

Nothing against you personally at all. Just an observation.

I agree that the cop jumped toward the rig. A poor choice all things considered, and he nearly paid a heavy price.

Probably 30-40 extremely fired up people at that spot in the universe. Lots of circumstances and choices all colliding at once. Most of them pretty damn well trained people. But as we well know, even police and feds don't make the perfect split second decision all the time.

I don't think Finicum was the most evil person involved in this whole thing at all. But he sure let his sense of self destiny get carried away in a swirling cesspool of events and bad choices by a lot of people.

The soft spoken, friendly dude with the cowboy hat, trying to live his old west fantasy found out that police don't play nice when you make them pursue you and they assume you have guns. They all have families they want to go home to, same as you.

The sad part is that he will make the perfect martyr poster child for people and groups more evil than he ever was.

The sad silver lining is that it was an Oregon State Trooper that shot him rather than a federal agent. That doesn't play into the extremist narrative. The silver lining continues that the majority of citizens were willing to speak out against this illegal action, and that the county sheriff stood against them. That and the Governor of Oregon continued to loudly state that they wanted federal support and action. That also doesn't play into the extremist "states rights" narrative.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 29, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Just caught potato's post on page 70;



....not drunk atoll.

I'm just making a list of islands I don't want to visit,..
(it's tough enough living in Utah)
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 29, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
I think that the officer was running from behind his vehicle toward the safety of the roadside while the truck was still possibly going to ram his car. I think that we will hear a statement soon to confirm his split second motivations.
I'm about 12% confident in my opinion.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Greasy Dave is still broadcasting for your viewing pleasure. It is beyond bizarre

[Click to View YouTube Video]
jstan

climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
Originally from upstate NY. Depending on how long ago that road had been plowed, it looked to me also that the road block could have been blown. In NH we once did a bank shot off the snow bank to avoid a bridge abutment. Works like a charm if you can get the rear of the car to hit first. Something like that was preventeed by the agent in this case.

The FBI agent blocking that opening was at risk in the event the driver were to pull too sharply into the embankment. Then the vehicle might have rolled and hit the whole blockade and the agent. It was a gutsy decision driven probably by the frustration of the previous month.

The man killed had been a spokesperson for the occupiers and for a month had been speaking very bluntly. This had put him in a very exposed mental position as was indicated simply by the attempt to drive away. Bottom line, he may have been assuming he would not be killed. Did not work out that way.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
Not sure what's better his videography or his narration.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
Jon Beck: After skimming through your post of Greasy Dave's video, sans sound, it looks like the Feds can add a new charge against the 4 hold-outs!

Litering on public property.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Fritz - there is an ongoing effort to organize volunteers to help fix the damage to the refuge. I can not find the link now.

The work on the carp problem at the lake will hopefully resume, here is an interesting story about it and the dedicated people working on it

http://www.hcn.org/articles/carp-lady-linda-beck-malheur-standoff-could-set-back-conservation-by-three-years


Over the years, the refuge has doused the lake with Rotenone, an aquatic poison, five times. None of the treatments have worked for more than a few years. By the time Beck arrived in Burns in 2009 — she’d moved there from Montana with her husband, who’d returned to work on his father’s ranch — the problem had come to seem intractable. Beck, a longtime federal fisheries biologist who’d researched aquatic invasive species like New Zealand mud snails and whirling disease, had quit her job to relocate to Oregon. Soon after, she turned up at the refuge to volunteer. Two days later, she was hired. Now the carp were her problem.

In the years since, Beck and her colleagues have developed an ambitious carp control playbook. They have installed a bevy of screens and traps to prevent the creatures from moving between water bodies, tracked down their spawning aggregations using telemetry, and experimented with grids that blast eggs and larvae with deadly electrical currents. In 2013, Beck drained 717-acre Boca Lake, creating a smorgasbord of dying carp for pelicans and coyotes, then screened off the lake to prevent future infiltrations. Aquatic vegetation immediately rebounded, followed by bugs, birds and native fish.

Even Malheur Lake, where carp run so thick that their backs create wind-like ripples across the glassy surface, is not beyond hope. A few years back, Beck and other biologists proposed an elegant solution: opening up the lake to commercial fishermen. Hired netters would haul out the carp, which have little market value as human food, and turn them over to Silver Sage Fisheries, a subsidiary separate sister company of Tualatin-based Pacific Foods. The fish would be trucked to Burns, processed into fertilizer, and spread across fields owned by Chuck Eggert, Pacific Foods’ founder. The dead fish would nourish organic hayfields, feed for dairy cows.

“From our perspective, it’s a win-win,” Tim Greseth, executive director of the Oregon Wildlife Heritage Foundation, the nonprofit that helped broker the deal, told me. “We’re restoring the ecology of the lake, putting people to work, and benefiting private enterprise.”
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Who's going?

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
So ~maybe~ the cop thinks the nutcase driving is going to hit the car he is behind so he jumps out of the roadway into the snow. However, the fella swung off of the road and the cop was 'juked' unintentionally?? In the end what diff does it make? A lot of folks here are hella confident in their knowledge from drone footage...kinda like picking your nuts for the 3rd pitch while standing on the ground eh?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
btw, Survival, that human IQ on average is 100 is also factual. That a third or more of Americans believe in the Second Coming of God Jesus is also factual.

That is a good example of what someone thinks is factual but is not in fact facual, unless the poster can read people's minds.
I assume the poster meant something like a third or more of people give a certain answer to a polling question, but who knows what those people in fact believe. In certain parts of the country and social groups, there may be strong social pressure to answer a question a certain way. Or maybe people answer in a way that makes them happy, regardless of what they really believe. Anyway, that statement is not "factual."
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Hey, Fructose, I watched it again at your 18 second mark. I agree with what Cragar wrote. The officer was getting the hell out of the way.

You see it differently. So it goes.

My thoughts are that it's more likely the officer is thinking he doesn't want to be there when the truck rams the roadblock than he's thinking if he jumps in front of 2 tons of steel he'll have the upper hand.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
Fair enough.

That a third or more of Americans [according to polls say they] believe in the Second Coming of God Jesus is also factual.

.....

The officer was getting the hell out of the way.

Only if you're Barney Fife and fat as Governor Christie.

Like I said, if his intention was to get the hell out of the way, he would've moved further back and to the other direction.

According to reports, he was an FBI Agent. So what's more likely? he was (a) a retreating Barney or (b) a proactive, take charge, Jonny Utah?

You do know who Jonny Utah is?
Outside

Trad climber
Truckee
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
Fritz - there is an ongoing effort to organize volunteers to help fix the damage to the refuge. I can not find the link now.

The work on the carp problem at the lake will hopefully resume, here is an interesting story about it and the dedicated people working on it

As a former Fisheries Technician at Malheur:

There is likely no damage done to the refuge during this occupation. The buildings I'm sure will need cleaned and re-organized and it looks like they will need to repair some utility lines, all can be done internally.

There is very little outside work done at the refuge during mid-winter. Most of the work would be ongoing maintenance of the road systems,buildings, and water diversion dams and fish ladders. The Biologist is usually working on the data collected over the summer.

The Carp problem has been there for decades. Although it has progressed. Again not much to do this time of year. We had discussed bringing in a commercial outfit to use the Carp 20 years ago, but never found a company really interested, its great to hear they found one. They will never rid the lakes of Carp but they certainly can improve the water quality for the Redband Trout by removing some of them.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
You do know who Jonny Utah is?

Any relation to Utah Phillips?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Not sure what's better his videography or his narration.

I'm going with the videography. Sorta reminds me of SushiFest.

Well, minus the Snow.

And the Coors light.

And whatever that crap was on that paper plate.

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
Like I said, if his intention was to get the hell out of the way, he would've moved further back and to the other direction.

^^ how do you know this? ^^
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
Lorenzo,

Although I'd love to attend, I can't make it to the aforementioned shindig.

I will be fully busy picking my nuts for the third pitch, from the ground, for the foreseeable future....
dirtbag

climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
Whatever the officer intended, the larger point is that Finicum should've stopped at the road block: he didn't.

He should've stayed in the car: he didn't.

He should've kept his hands up: he didn't.

He shouldn't have put his hand in his pocket: he did.

He should be alive: he isn't.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jan 29, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
HFCS is completely correct.

The agent is assuming that the truck just might be able to blow thru the roadblock thru the snow and and or the occupants may try to exit the vehicle.

All variables that needed cover from that side he was assigned to cover.

He was never standing there like crankloon would drooling and waiting to be run over.

HCFS doesnt know sh#t. show me an fbi agent willing to jump in front of a 75oo lb truck to get his man and i'll show you a dead fbi agent.

FACT, neither HCFS or anyone else on this thread has a f*#king clue about what that FBI agent was thinking. but my bet is that he thought the truck was rammning the road black and he was trying to get out of the way.
Messages 1341 - 1360 of total 2571 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta