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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 12, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
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I remember standing up and telling him to shut his mouth and quit stroking himself, that the class was about concealed carry laws and not about how cool he thought HE was.
You're an interesting guy Norton. Got an angry streak and a touch of self-loathing or something like it going on though. I dig it though because you're honest.
Why would you have stood up and said anything in someone else's class? Told him to "shut his mouth" because you didn't like his analogy you took as 'ego stroking'? Really?... That must have been awkward for everyone.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 12, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
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Can you name a single conflict, since the turn of the the 20th century, where untrained civilians with small arms defeated the military?
Cuba.
Can I name any "potential" politicians dissuaded from trying to become reactionary overloards due to an armed population?
Richard Nixon.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 12, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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Get back to moving furniture and quit slackin!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 12, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
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Mr Kos,
As an untrained civilian with small arms, why should I ever have to consider defeating - or even being on the opposite side of - our military?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
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Fatal: Metro counties 3.3 per 100,000
Non-Metro counties 3.2 per 100,000.
BOTH US murder rates are STILL 3x higher than they are in the UK, despite the UK having higher rates of violent crime, chronically bad weather, ugly chicks, and plenty of hammers. WHY?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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Wrong again Rong. The UK was saved by the US MILITARY... part of the US GOVERNMENT... the same organization many gun nuts insist they need puny little assault weapons to defend against. Meanwhile, lax regulations allow those puny little assault weapons to fall into the wrong hands and kill dozens of children or other innocent people in minutes... well before any responsible concealed carrier can react.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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Lack of regulations allowed Ms. Lanza to purchase weapons of that capability.
Lax regulations allowed her to store them irresponsibly.
US murder rates are STILL 3x higher than they are in the UK, despite the UK having higher rates of violent crime, chronically bad weather, ugly chicks, and plenty of hammers.
WHY?
WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY?
Just answer the gawdamn question.
Why does the UK have over 3x the violent crime rate and 1/3 the murder rate?
How does that work?
What is the underlying reason the US has ~1/3 the violent crime and 3x the murder rate?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
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For ONE wes,, the UK doesnt allow a flood of illegal gang and cartel to operate like we do.... Its probably HALF of our murder rates that are attributed to this very thing.
You are soo misinformed it is almost comical... almost.
Gang violence in the UK accounts for over 60% of the gun homicides in the UK. Just so you know, that is more than HALF and it is not a "probably" it is a fact.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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an exercise in futility
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
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Mechrist,
the reason is that there are more rural areas in the US per capita, so lower violence. (check the FBI chart Crimpie linked to) But there are more guns in the US, so that violence translates to deaths more often than if the violence was done with any other method.
If you get mad and grab a gun it is more likely to end in death than if you get mad and grab a golf club. This is why suicide by gun is so much more successful than suicide by most other methods commonly used.
So if the UK had as many guns per capita as the us, their gun death rate would be higher, the same ratio as the us vs: violence rate.
So what we need to do is not do away with guns, but just the large magazines so the worst of this problem will go away, poof! And none of the existing million out there that are causing this current problem, but just restrict the sales of any new ones. Our crime rate won't decrease, but it won't increase as fast either. Problem solved.
No, if you want to solve the problem of people shooting others with large capacity semi-auto's, if that is the problem you want to address, you have to TAKE AWAY the existing guns. Just changing the rules will still result in an increase of crime, because the millions of existing guns out there will still continue to kill people.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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the reason is that there are more rural areas in the US per capita, so lower violence.
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!
That has been established. Population density is the reason the UK's rate of violent crime is 3.5 times higher. They are clearly more violent because they have a higher population density. Nobody is arguing, disputing, or questioning that. The question is....
Even with their much higher rate of violent crime, WHY DO THEY HAVE ONLY 1/3 the MURDER RATE of the US?
But there are more guns in the US, so that violence translates to deaths more often than if the violence was done with any other method.
Which is WHY there should be stricter gun regulations in the US. Unless of course having a 3x higher murder rate than those limey bastards is what we are going for... to prove how tough we are?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
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because it is harder to turn violence into murder if you don't have an efficient weapon to do so! Stop holding it right there and keep reading goofball!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
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Stop pretending that hasn't already been established over and over and over.
The question was not why do we have a lower rate of violence. It was, with a lower rate of violence, why do we have so many murders? The answer is: because damn near anyone can go to a gun store and purchase a very effective killing tool with a minimal background check, no safety requirements, very little testing, no mental evaluation, and MAYBE a 10 day waiting period.
Guns are just WAY too easy to acquire and straw purchases are just WAY too easy to get away with... as illustrated by Rong and his South African friend.
No, if you want to solve the problem of people shooting others with large capacity semi-auto's, if that is the problem you want to address, you have to TAKE AWAY the existing guns. Just changing the rules will still result in an increase of crime, because the millions of existing guns out there will still continue to kill people.
That is your opinion and is not backed by anything in the real world.
Thousands of guns are taken off the streets every year, maybe 10's of thousands (Crimpie?!?!?). You have to be an idiot to think stricter regulations would not at least help the reduce the flow of illegal guns to criminals... especially considering most criminals get their guns through straw purchases, which Rong thinks are perfectly legal.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 13, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
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So guns expire after one murder? Is that real world? Stop fooling yourself.
Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants should have applications and licenses and BMI scales at the door since poor eating causes health issues that kill more people in the US than in the UK where they don't have Fat Burger and In-n-Out on each corner. Is that a equitable comparison scaled up to a bigger issue?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
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So guns expire after one murder? Is that real world? Stop fooling yourself.
Like arguing with a fuking brick wall... one that continually makes sh#t up that was never said or even implied.
Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants should have applications and licenses and BMI scales at the door since poor eating causes health issues that kill more people in the US than in the UK where they don't have Fat Burger and In-n-Out on each corner. Is that a equitable comparison scaled up to a bigger issue?
No, that is not even close to an equitable comparison and not even in the ballpark of logic... it is absolutely absurd and idiotic. Nobody has walked into a school, IHOP, or other public place and killed dozens of people in minutes with fast food. Nobody uses fast food specifically to kill other people. You are an idiot... keep grasping as you slide down that slippery slope into absurdity.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jan 13, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
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Hedge,
What regulations are you suggesting be passed? An assault rifle and high capacity magazine ban or something more restrictive? If more restrictive, then what regulations specifically?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 13, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
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Using your logic applied to the biggest killer in the US, all fast-food restaurants..."
Nope, that's not using logic.
Using his logic isn't using logic? ????
I'm applying the style of argument to another situation. Just because obesity kills fewer people in one location at one time (unless you count hospitals, which have as many people die of diet-related things in one day) as guns, it still kills more per day in the US. That isn't what I was arguing, it was the overall stats. If you aren't worried about overall deaths due to violence in the country, just specific scenarios in schools under grade 10, you should have said so!
Hedge has no specific recommendations, because he knows that if he loves the UK so much he should just move there and isn't willing to expose himself to others telling him that. So he will just attack those who want to deal with the criminals and stay free in the land of the free because he would rather let some politicians pass some rules at home to affect everyone else instead of just moving to the UK himself. 22,000 gun laws in the US, but he believes one more will make all the difference. He will support more and more laws until they infringe on his own cherished rights (whatever those are) and then cry wolf.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 13, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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Again, NOBODY uses fast food specifically to KILL OTHERS. I'm all for abolishing fast food, but that is an entirely unrelated issue. As is drunk driving, smoking, etc
Guns are tools that make violent crimes more destructive. Easy access to guns means more violent crimes end in murder. Many of those murders involve innocent people. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with hamburgers.
You have no idea what "logic" is. You made a faulty analogy a 7th grader should be ashamed of.
22,000 gun laws in the US...
With countless engineered loopholes.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 13, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
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So you think limiting access to new guns but allowing the current guns that are out there already (300mil) will fix anything? The death by gun rate will still increase because the number of guns out there will increase. (using your logic from upthread).
I can make any analogy I want. I have 60 patients a week I make an analogy between dental decay and bugs eating the Red Bull they drink and then peeing on their teeth and the patients get it. Every one thanks me for finally putting it in simple terms they can understand, unrelated, but simple terms. Then they come back year after year with NO new cavities. It works. It doesn't have to be related, just analogous so that people can understand and deal with the problem effectively. The system works, it looses me money since I don't have cavities to fill anymore, but in real life it works.
So are you going to get the same guys who With countless engineered loopholes. did this to write one more?
If you can't handle putting your logic into simple-to-understand situations, is it because your argument is weak? It sure isn't because looking at the logic from a different perspective isn't an effective tool for understanding a subject. Mind you, there are 3 stupid folks who just don't get it even when I use microbiological terms, and they are the ones who pay my rent.
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