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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 26, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
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was raygun in office?
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Human Pack Mule
Big Wall climber
Southern California
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Jul 26, 2011 - 04:39pm PT
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As a closing post on this subject from me:
I was on YOSAR then and had nothing to do with any of the crap thrown your way.
Coz,
This is why code of conduct policies exist, because the actions of members of organizations reflect not only on themselves, but on people who were not responsible for their actions but are also members of said organization and the organization as a whole. It is a very crummy feeling to be accused of something you didn't do, isn't it? Really, you don't have anyone to blame for that other than the other members of YOSAR at the time. As the old saying goes, "A few bad apples spoil the bunch."
Lovegasoline and John Moosie:
That was actually pretty amusing, and I did in fact heartily laugh out loud. I appreciate your ability to see the humor in an otherwise dumpy situation. Thanks for that.
I bid you all a good day.
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strangeday
Social climber
The O.C. baby!!
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Jul 26, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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I really wish I had never started reading this thread...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 26, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
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at the point they started using the YOSAR campsite as a public announcement point of "We chopped your route," the entire YOSAR team was implicating itself in the event? Right?
No, as you stated as far as you were aware it was subset of Yosar. It could have been only a few drunk a-holes who did the deed and their external friends at the campfire. The more reasonable members of Yosar may have been asleep or located elsewhere. It's not fair to make statements that equate all Yosar with the bad apples.
But it's interesting to see how pissed off people get when mischaracterizations are made about their team. I wonder if they can think how that would feel if it were directed against them personally?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 26, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
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Wouldn't it be interesting if a purported villain wasn't really half the villain he was made out to be?
Wouldn't it be something if a lot of the anger generated towards Mark and Richard was based on a small group conspiracy who lied, and sold it to the rest of the gang, who believed it? And that the lie could be proved not to be true?
Wouldn't it be cool if someone who was overlooked or intentionally disregarded for significant climbing achievements, or had bolts chopped, finally had his truth revealed, too?
Sometimes you can't stop the truth. Although you would wonder around this place!
Deucey - for us n00bs who are not among the cognoscenti, could you please identify the characters in your photo?
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 26, 2011 - 06:08pm PT
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The sar site is the living quarters for the climbers who are PART of the Yosemite Search & Rescue team that is actually run by protection division of the park. I said "subset," you say "part." When a "part" of you is doing something, how can you say that the whole has "absolutely nothing to do with [it]"? Seems a little absurd to me. That's my point.
If there is no SAR or rescue they are not employees at that time. So they are unaffiliated with YOSAR when not on mission? What about the housing and other accommodations that they receive that the common camper doesn't receive? When staying in the housing area provided free to them, they are able to conduct whatever activities they want in that housing area without regard for YOSAR? I guess what pushed my button on this is the assertion YOSAR has "absolutely nothing" to do with it. Just not seeing that point very well.
But I should add that the SAR site was a big place. Individual people did things that don't reflect on climbers who lived there who had nothing to do with hassling or blocking us. Also, in the week or so after the chopping, we stopped being hassled by the SAR site. This was probably a top-down policy that came through or from YOSAR. So you can argue that, in the end, the administrative side of YOSAR facilitated the climb going forward. At one point near the end of our stay in C4 someone from SAR approached us to apologize for what had happened and to wish us well.
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 26, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
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Meaty,
The content of your posts are revised almost as much as your history of climbing. But I'll try to get over it.
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 26, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
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If you're not smart enough to see a few member don't speak for the team, I can't help you.
Point well taken, and always has been. Just don't tell me that YOSAR had "absoltuley nothing" to do with it. That's what flipped my switch.
But I have gotten over it, Coz, so don't worry about that.
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yo
climber
Mudcat Spire
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Jul 26, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
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Yosar orchestrated this?
PS: Long live Jose
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 26, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
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dit dit dot dit dot dot dot.. NEWS FLASH
NATIONAL PARKS HAVING TROUBLE HIRING SEARCH AND RESCUE MEMBERS
In the lastest news, National park representative Iluv Headman announced today that Yosemite National Park would not be conducting search and rescue operations due to a crisis in hiring. Mr. Headman told this reporter that the park was having difficulty finding any climber who had not shat on or near a rope in the last 35 years. After a series of lawsuits aimed at requiring the park to enforce its code of conduct, the park instituted a new requirement for SAR members. The requirement was that all SAR members must not have shat on or near a climbing rope in the past 35 years, due to a shitting incident that happened in the park. The problem appears to be that anyone who has climbed a big wall has likely had to take a dump near their ropes. This is for safety reasons as one would not want to untie from the rope while taking care of business.
In related new..
National Park representatives announced today that Joshua Tree National park would be hiring boy scout troop #69 to handle its search and rescues. This was due to the serious shortage of qualified applicants for its Search and Rescue Team.
Breaking News..
Joshua Tree National Park reports today that a search is on for 4 missing boy scouts who were involved in a previous search and rescue, but did not return after 4 days.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 26, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
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Gene
climber
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Jul 26, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
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I'm getting nostalgic for simple days gone by when all we wanted certain folks to do was go piss up a rope.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 26, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
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I'm getting nostalgic for simple days gone by when all we wanted certain folks to do was go piss up a rope.
lol
as opposed to go sh#t on a rope!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Jul 26, 2011 - 09:37pm PT
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Like it or not, I don’t think this is going away on its own any time soon. There’s too much intensity on every side of the issue at this point. So if it’s not going away, how about we attempt to resolve it?
It’ll take a certain amount of restraint, but I think it can be done. Let’s take the YoSAR situation really quick, I think that everyone has something here that’s important to say, and really makes a certain amount of sense from where they’re standing.
As I said earlier, Werner, I can see what you’re saying. There is a definite distinction that I think is very important between what some climbers who were part of YoSAR chose to do out of their own choices and opinions at the time, and that it does not mean that the whole of YoSAR was involved.
From MSmith’s point of view, if I understand it correctly, it makes sense that he would see what happened as coming down on them from YoSAR given that he experienced a large enough subset of climbers who happened to be from YoSAR engaging in those words and actions directly from the YoSAR campsite.
And that last part helps for me to understand MSmith’s perception because, as HPM stated, it reflects on an organization how its members decide to act on their organization's grounds, even if it is on their off time.
NEVERTHELESS, I recognize that according to what Werner is saying (and I believe Coz as well), the critical distinction needs to be made that this does not necessarily reflect on the whole totality of YoSAR, the organization itself, nor all of its members, not now, and not even then.
As long as I’m getting what you folk are all saying, these all seem to me to be valid and reasonable points.
I would like as much as anybody to see this thing put to bed. We have A&K’s SA report coming soon, the sun is going to be setting on this thing soon and I'd like for it to find us all with some measure of tolerance for each other, even if we aren't in agreement on each other's positions. I don’t know about the rest of you but I think all we need to do here is take some different steps. We’re getting further polarized and more rigid in the whole point/counterpoint/post dog sh#t pictures dance, and I really think everyone here could help change that, just by trying a little honest acceptance of each other’s point of view. Doesn't mean we have to agree, just acknowledge that from where we're all standing, what we're seeing makes sense.
Also, here is a picture of a giant juicer firing a power beam at a flying eel being ridden by satan while a cat umbrella parachutes its way to safety and two guys fight in the foreground to hopefully get folk to actually pay attention to what's written up above.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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LOL .... so everyone has finally figured everything out.
So now peace and tranquility will once again prevail ....
Yes ....
?
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:20pm PT
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Ah, all is well. That's good to hear.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:23pm PT
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Congratulations Ammon and Kait on your second ascent! It's great that mysteries of our past are being brought to light and hopefully provide grist for the mill of how we deal with events that are beyond our current "Status Quos"
Some suggestions to keep this thread from becoming whacked beyond the entertainment value of seeing threads get whacked.
1. Pete has an obvious "Bias" but has been good about looking at both sides of the issue, admitting short-comings and whatknot. He is irritating to some people, perhaps from his style or from past mistakes. Making a big deal of his contributions here is a waste and fills the thread with useless banter not horribly unlike when a thread becomes all about Lois.
2. We've already established that climbers come and go from YOSAR. Yosar itself made no policy or statement about WOS so let's just stand corrected and admit that lots of Yosar members were against WOS and leave it at that.
3. It's lame to call WOS a siege climb if only two pitches were fixed. The whole alternative to Sieging is getting on a climb and taking what time it takes to finish it. Super fast Ammon didn't exactly run up the climb either.
4. Surprised the climb hasn't been more compared to the Wall of the Early Morning Light, which WAS widely disparaged and condemned and took a long time on the wall to climb.
5 I'm not saying what 5 was
6. There is no 6
7 this wasn't really meant to be a list but WTF!
Love ya'll
Don't we love to have our panties in a bunch about stuff cause we care about climbing but also because it makes us feel special so others should think like we do?
Let's let it go and read what others write, climb what other's climb and do our own thing for ourselves as well.
Peace
Karl
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
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So now peace and tranquility will once again prevail ....
Yes .... ?
Ah, all is well. That's good to hear.
Indeed. Well, I can hope. I would very much like to see this be the circumstances under which the Second Ascent report find us all. =)
Edit: I could, of course, be being naive...
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
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fact:
1. some f*#ks did something that they have never ever wanted to confess too...(ie: sh#t on ropes)
2. Within last 2 years one of the most vocal detractors has been Grossman who said he would climb the route and prove how f*#ked it was.
3. Fact: Grossman has been quiet. My generation thought the their word meant sumtin. anyone can lash out, so WTF steve? You aint said nothing? your opine is worth sh#t. let me say again sh#t.
in my opinion, anyone who is so vocal should back their sh#t up otherwise f*#k you.....and the horse you rode in on.....
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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:23am PT
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Hey Karl,
I wanna know what #5 is. And I agree with #6. But #42 is where it is at.
Cheers,
Prod.
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