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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
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jghedge. I'm not sure you are totally correct. You didn't take the slaves away in Canada, in fact, we were the last stop for the underground railway - they came here to be free. We resolved that issue without war - unlike you.
However, unlike the liberal agenda, we are relaxing our gun rules and there are more guns here than ever before. Fewer slaves.
Maybe Canada is just that one exception to your rule you are trying to use to prove your point to your fellow Americans. But if it is, it is a pretty good chance that given our societal rules, you would still have more murders per capita than us - if you fixate on the tool used for the crime, and not the motivation, you will only have different crimes to deal with later. Unless you truly believe that people's anger is a result of the gun they are holding (which they had to kill their mother or break a law to get)
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
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Cragman... regarding your "Obama Opposed Gun Ban Exception to Defend One’s Home"
The NRA bases this overheated claim on a vote Obama cast on March 24, 2004, in the Illinois state Senate. He was one of 20 who opposed SB 2165. That bill, which passed 38 – 20 and became law, did not make it a crime to use firearms for self-defense, however. Rather, it created a loophole for persons caught violating local gun registration laws.
...it shall be an "affirmative defense" if the person accused of violating the ban can show that the weapon was used "in an act of self-defense or defense of another … when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business."
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/nra-targets-obama/
Here's the bill (SB2165) in its entirety. Although I'm sure you won't read any of it, since it does not conform to your preconceived version of reality.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/93/SB/PDF/09300SB2165lv.pdf
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
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Perfect comeback Dave. You addressed and discredited all the relevant facts about the blue team there. Good job.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
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Yes Dave, that's what "United" means... you know... United until you disagree, then civil war or abandonment.
MeSA
MeSA
MeSA
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
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Americans are stupid.
Chicago is the mob capital of the USA.
People are supposed to get whacked and shot in that town.
I used to live in Chicago in the old dazes.
All my friends there work for the mob now ....
I think?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
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How about that bill Cragman? Did you read it, or are you just going to trust Keith Koffler to tell you what you already know, regardless of reality?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
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So since BC has 12% tax, tighter gun laws than Chicago, etc. etc. Asian gangs up the wazoo, why don't we have as many shooting deaths per capita?
If these factors were influencing factors, why can't you trace them?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
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Do you mean that criminals choose to live in Chicago?
Where they know the law-abiding public has less chance of defending themselves because they CHOOSE to live there thinking gun laws will keep them safe?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
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Where they know the law-abiding public has less chance of defending themselves because they CHOOSE to live there thinking gun laws will keep them safe?
That's some crazy twisted sh!t right there. It shocks me that those thoughts can actually form in the human brain.
So since BC has 12% tax, tighter gun laws than Chicago, etc. etc. Asian gangs up the wazoo, why don't we have as many shooting deaths per capita?
Yeah, why don't you have as many shooting deaths per capita?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
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Better not think about it then mecrist. But if people are willing to shoot kids, and you don't want to think about it, you have no chance of understanding and stopping that type of behavior and you will continue to support politicians who put laws through that will be ineffective in addressing these problems that are becoming epidemic.
I know that there are Americans who move to states heavily influenced by the state gun laws - good guys. Logically then, bad guys would do so as well.
jghedge. I agree with almost your whole post to a point. However, you allow $$ to be given to politicians in Washington, so big industry has a big influence on your laws. Since I can see your other scenario playing out, but know that the gun industry is big enough to influence the government, the only way I can see that happening is that the gun industry doesn't collapse, it will grow, but by selling to people other than citizens, maybe more to other countries. As long as you have lobbying, they aren't going to die off.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
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That's a lame response tooth. Seriously, Vancouver has a much lower rate of gun related violent crime... and much stricter gun regulations. Do you really not see the connection?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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Yes, I see the connection. Vancouver is the highest rate of gun crime in BC. It is the biggest city. It doesn't have stricter gun laws than anywhere else.
The same is true in the US. Bigger the city, the higher the rate of per capita crime.
My point was that the gun laws from state to-state vary in relation to the homicide rate, but the size of the city has a much tighter correlation.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 12, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
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Wes writes:
"That's a lame response tooth. Seriously, Vancouver has a much lower rate of gun related violent crime... and much stricter gun regulations. Do you really not see the connection? "
Juarez Mexico has way tougher gun regulations than Vancouver, and way more violence.
Still think there's a connection to see?
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
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Watch my video Dave. You'll reconsider that statement once you remove borders and consider groups of people in cities vs. rural and see that countries like Canada with very few cities over 250,000 have low crime rate, and countries like Mexico with big cities have high crime rates with the US in the middle, even though our gun laws don't line up neatly like that.
Then you will say, shoot, and will scoff at this because, you will ask, what do you propose, dispersing everyone out of the cities? And use that to discredit any actual thinking about facts at a deeper level than your politicians would give you in their one-liners in the media.
Did I get that right?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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Gun sales always sky rocket after gun violence. It is the vicious cycle of irrational fear.
Your video sucks.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
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Um, because it didn't tell you what to think mecrist? You couldn't argue with it? Or because you didn't want to think about anything any different than you do already?
BTW Dave, Europe has a higher violent crime rate per capita than the US too.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
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No connection between gun laws and gun deaths?
Really?
Well, let's take a look:
The state of Massachusetts has THE toughest gun control laws in the nation.
Massachusetts has THE lowest rate per capita of death by handgun in the nation.
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Want another?
Alaska has the nation's least restrictive guns laws, and the absolute highest rate of gun deaths per capita.
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Someone mention Chicago?
Chicago has a population of almost 3,000,000
Chicago had ONLY some 500 handgun deaths last year.
Can you imagine how many more gun deaths there would be if laws were "relaxed"?
Likely well in to the thousands, instead of only 500.
But again, let's stick to Massachusetts and Alaska gun laws, pretty huge connection.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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No, I already pointed out why that video is stupid in another thread...
His UK vs USA comparison is fundamentally flawed. He points out the the UK has a violent crime rate 3.5 times higher than the US. The UK also has an average population density that is over 3.5 times higher than the US. Violent crime rates are related to population density, which he points out earlier using US cities as examples.
Then he brushes over the fact that the UK has a murder rate of 1.3... "that is lower than the US." But he neglects to say HOW MUCH LOWER. The murder rate in the US is over 3x that in the UK.
He is clearly confused by numbers and facts, so I will summarize for you:
1) Violent crime is related to population density.
2) The UK has a population density more than 3.5 times that of the US.
3) The UK has 3.5 times more violent crime than the US. (nothing surprising there)
4) The US, despite its 3.5 times LOWER rate of violent crime, has a murder rate 3x HIGHER than the UK.
Any questions? Yes, that video is stupid... just another dip sh#t confused by numbers and talking himself in circles to support what he thinks he already knows.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 12, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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You are an idiot. I never once said I support requirements for people to turn in their guns. If I had an assault rifle, yeah, I'd turn it in.
All I ever said was that I want stricter gun regulations, mental health evals, and limited mag capacities. You've had your head so far up your a*# for so long you need to clean the sh#t and pubes out of your eyes and learn to read.
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