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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 19, 2019 - 07:05am PT
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Down vs Synthetic....
Camalots or ?
How many nuts should I bring?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 19, 2019 - 08:51am PT
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How many nuts should I bring?
SEXIST!
I dream of a day when all cliffs can be populated by people of all genders, those having nuts and those not having nuts, where the question of "how many nuts" is never asked, because a climber is judged not by the quantity of their nuts but by the quality of their character....
Oops.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 09:11am PT
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Did rokjox ever climb? I thought he said he had never placed pro or climbed outdoors.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 19, 2019 - 09:16am PT
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I should add that I have not yet attended my mandatory training in micro-aggressions.
At least I did not mention my Big Bros tube c*#ks for slots... chocks I mean... yes chocks.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 19, 2019 - 09:37am PT
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^^^ :-)
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 19, 2019 - 09:54am PT
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So RJ-one of your members on the ST Staff posted on this site recenlty additional dialogue on Political Discussions and ever onward, or should I say downward about why this is not a place for them.
So low and behold, I searched his postings and dam if the vast majority of his contribution to ST were not politically related.
I see that his posting and my response on this have been deleted?
Am I missing something here?
Can you explain please?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 19, 2019 - 03:31pm PT
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It isn't really politics that have ruined this place. It is the people who spend a large portion of their lives here. This place is dominated by 50-odd old ex climbers who you can't argue with. They post so often that you would have to spend hours each day just to follow some of the threads and give thoughtful responses.
I prefer the sunshine outside.
Screw this place 90% of the time. The What is Mind thread started in 2011, and has remained on the front page ever since. It has nothing to do with climbing. Largo stands court. Kneel in his presence.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 03:36pm PT
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^^^^^ Aint that the truth.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 04:10pm PT
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^^^
Excellent point.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 19, 2019 - 07:09pm PT
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About politics....rarely posted about the topic. I must say tho that reading the more reasonable, solid comments from the likes of Ed Hartouni and others I thought much about what they said and I have become more moderate.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 07:12pm PT
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Lynne, as a longtime ST polititard, I can’t remember the last time I saw Ed post anything in a political thread. However, I share your broader point: quality posts from people like John Eleazarian have made me think outside my own box.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 19, 2019 - 07:15pm PT
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Likewise.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 19, 2019 - 07:31pm PT
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JE and I attended the same schools, shared differing viewpoints, and always argued politely.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 19, 2019 - 08:08pm PT
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Apogee and Wilbeer, it may have only been a sentence or two and not even on a political thread. Ed only needed a sentence or two to make me think.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 19, 2019 - 08:12pm PT
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I enjoy participating in the climbing content and the loss of political discourse here is no big deal. So rest easy folks, climbing is a trivial and superfluous byproduct of a politically successful society.
I say, let's enjoy the useful distraction of this Climber's Forum while we can- politics will always reign and when it hits the fan, inconsequential things like climbing will be the first to go and you'll have more politics than you can deal with.
To the people I've had discouse with in both agreement and opposition; thanks It's been fun.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you. Pericles
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved. Aristotle
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Apr 19, 2019 - 08:13pm PT
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About all that is needed from what I know of Dr. Hartouni.
And ,please do not apologize for being concerned about you,your families,all of our concerns about the future,you know politics.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2019 - 08:50pm PT
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Some of you have raised concerns that my original post on this thread means that there is zero tolerance for any thread that has anything connected to politics.
That is not the case.
Any climbing topic related to the core mission of SuperTopo, even those that inherently have a political element, is welcome.
As a reminder, that core mission shows up on the right every time you post "Our goal with the climbing forum is to provide a resource for climbers of all skill levels and experience to get information about climbing and climbing destinations."
Climbing topics that are also political in nature, such as access issues, climate change, or discussion of policies related to or impacting climbing destinations are welcome here.
What we don't want is to have the forum taken over by national and international political issues that are either not related to climbing, or very thinly related to climbing. If you're not sure if the issue is just thinly related to climbing, then it probably isn't what we want here. If you want to make a post about how every political issue is somehow related to climbing, please do it on another web site. There are so many other web sites that embrace political discussions. SuperTopo is not one of them.
Political threads with nothing or very little related to climbing have led to the least civil discourse on the forum in this site's 18-year history, and have often required significant moderation to address personal abuse, attacks, and bullying.
Also, as a practical matter, political threads just bury the climbing topics and make the useful climbing stuff on the SuperTopo forum harder to find.
Thank you for respecting this and for helping us make the SuperTopo Forum a great resource for climbers.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 19, 2019 - 09:58pm PT
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Chris, I realize that advocating for these kinds of threads is pretty pointless, as it is your website & forum, and I respect your desire to see it contain whatever content you think most closely fulfills your own vision.
That said, I just can't wrap my head around the rationale that the topic of politics...national, international, or whatever...is any different from any of the vast array of topics that appear on this forum constantly. 'What is Mind'...Tractors...Progressive Rock...and on and on and on...these topics are as thinly connected to climbing as politics are- and these threads bump climbing content about as much as anything political. I just can't buy into that part of the rationale for scrubbing it.
What I can buy into is that political threads have absolutely been some of the most prolific sources of negativity, bullying, and ad hominems anywhere on this forum. That rationale, all by itself, is enough for me to understand why you do not want to see it as part of this place.
That's truly a shame, too, as I enjoy discussing politics with other climbers as much as I do talking about anything related to climbing (or Progressive Rock, or Tractors, etc.). I'm sure many users here would be happy to see anything political completely disappear, but I'm one of the few who feels a loss.
Having said all this, I do thank you for the work and patience you've had in managing something that certainly generates more headaches than benefits, much of the time.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 19, 2019 - 10:30pm PT
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I understand what Chris is saying; I just wonder why this discussion could not have taken place years ago. We've seen threads deleted, boom. Yes, they were off topic and heated with personal aspersions and ad hominem attacks as well as Russian troll comments but maybe, if the rules of the site had been enforced or enunciated more clearly, we wouldn't be at this point. We are all political and the political component we have defines our world view; that view affects our lives. Yes, it would be 'nice' if only climbing content were posted, but that is not who we are. We are a gestalt of our environment, and that environment includes the realities of our lives and that reality includes politics because that affects everything.
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