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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 09:56pm PT
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Are you saying that these FA people didn't know what they were doing?
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fracture
Sport climber
Austin, TX
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Nov 22, 2006 - 09:59pm PT
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You have to understand that bolts directly diminish adventure and that adventure is valuable to the majority of climbers.
The above sentence demonstrates a severe disconnect with the reality of modern climbing. Today's typical climber only boulders---probably mostly indoors. Adventure is rarely part of the equation.
It's what makes climbing so special.
There are two problems with this:
1) Climbing is not special. Quit deluding yourself. This is just a game---not a "lifestyle", a path to "spiritual enlightenment", or whatever other nonsense old tard climbers like to pretend.
2) Adventure is available from many sources beside climbing. Even if climbing were special, it couldn't be because of adventure.
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:02pm PT
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You cannot be serious! Not another budding narcissonihilist!
The relevance of your modern climber's argument is that boulderers would determine what goes on in the realm of roped climbing. Slight disconnect there. Incidentally, it doesn't take but a highball or a bad landing to turn bouldering into bigtime adventure.
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fracture
Sport climber
Austin, TX
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:03pm PT
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Are you saying that these FA people didn't know what they were doing?
No. I'm saying that people who put up runout bolted routes (X-rated, cf. Hedge's post) and subsequently pretend they have the right to veto retros are selfish, and moreover that that sort of ascent is in very poor style.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:06pm PT
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selfish?
Just like you ......
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:07pm PT
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Didn't you read what Jello and others wrote above? Bolts are usually placed where appropriate on the sharp end and aren't all being stretched apart for kicks. Give me a break. Why can't you TR?
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:12pm PT
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I just like to climb... even a 5.6 bolt ladder is still fun to me. I could still have fun on a bolted boulder problem.
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fracture
Sport climber
Austin, TX
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:30pm PT
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The relevance of your modern climber's argument is that boulderers would determine what goes on in the realm of roped climbing.
What?
The relevance of my argument is to your claim that most climbers climb for adventure. The point is: this doesn't remotely appear to be the case---perhaps you are confused by a previous decade.
Incidentally, it doesn't take but a highball or a bad landing to turn bouldering into bigtime adventure.
What does that have to do with anything? How many highball problems with bad landings are in your gym?
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fracture
Sport climber
Austin, TX
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:36pm PT
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Why can't you TR?
Why bolt anything at all? TR'ing is only sometimes an option. As routes get steep, traverse, or have inaccessible clifftops, TR'ing becomes less convenient, less safe, or impossible.
In the case of a runout (i.e. X-rated) slab that doesn't traverse and has a very conveniently accessible top, I'd agree there's never going to be a point to retroing it. (But there also wouldn't be much of a point to bolting it in the first place---assuming what you're interested in is actual rock climbing, not contrived stunts.)
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ground_up
Trad climber
portland, or.
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:47pm PT
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If a route is good and the FA was put up ground up , I walk away with respect for the people that put it up, problem is , alot of the rap bolted routes have bolts in wacky places plus, the FA'ist were sissys.....BTW , Ca. granite is way better than Smith Rock will ever be.....imho
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
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frac, you missed the points also. Are you guys really so short on routes to do?
What makes you believe that moving over the rock confidently, in the absence of pro, is some kind of stunt or contrivance? Of course you can't TR some routes, but it is sometimes an option for people not keen on run outs.
I don't usually climb in a gym. They serve their purpose.
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Tired Trad Tales
Trad climber
southern cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2006 - 10:53pm PT
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Wow, 165 replies to this question/post is overwhelming! Of all of the comments I read, I most appreciated the recent one from the Warbler. Thanks.
Wed, 22 Nov, 2006
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:54pm PT
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Ok ok I give up. Go ahead and retro bolt one of my routes. Do anything you want to it.
"Power Point" on higher Cathedral Rock
I dare ya .......
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 10:55pm PT
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So what is your viewpoint, Tired Tales?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 11:04pm PT
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Hahaha Kevin you're killing me .....
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 22, 2006 - 11:09pm PT
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Better watch out Kevin, they'll be after Space Babble next.
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 23, 2006 - 01:30am PT
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Must've missed this, just read on Cummins' Bolts on El Cap thread that a bolt was placed above the crux mantle of the DNB. Who placed it and when? Why hasn't it been chopped?
This route was first put up in 1962 and freed in 1965. Folks have found that bolt unnecessary for over 40 years. Why now? With all these toys and fine rubber? Climbing has never been easier and yet it's just not easy enough for some people.
Back in the 1990s some fool added a bolt to the traverse on XM in Eldorado which was quickly chopped and hopefully has not reappeared. The thing was done free (roped solo) by Larry Dalke in hardsoled boots back in the 1960s. Another example of moronity.
Anyway, this is about the DNB. What up!
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 23, 2006 - 01:46am PT
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Not even hardly wrinkled Kevin. You are correct sir, it sounded like an additional one above that.
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 23, 2006 - 02:19am PT
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It's all about respect Kevin. Hard to believe some of these kids are promoting doing this, and in some areas, getting away with it. No sense of history at all. Reading what Wes and fractured fairy tales wrote is downright spooky. To some poor souls, what was once inspiring has become oppressive. Truly sad.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Nov 23, 2006 - 03:46am PT
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"The above sentence demonstrates a severe disconnect with the reality of modern climbing. Today's typical climber only boulders---probably mostly indoors. Adventure is rarely part of the equation. "
So they (modern indoor boulderes) should dictate the style of a type of climbing irrelevent to them?
I hold modern climbers in higher esteem than that. They deserve better (routes) than the lowest uncommen denominator.
They deserve to know what it's about. We don't need to shied them.
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