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Fuzzywuzzy
climber
suspendedhappynation
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Roy
Claude Fiddler on Oz.
Jim Pettigrew with Dave Bircheff.
Tom Morrison outside Bishop Inyo (Clevenger's window) (big story there) next to CC & Wheeler.
Walter cleaning pitch 5 Trip 1977.
Nick - nice one of "Libito"!
TC
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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"Trad"
Why do we allow ourselves to be defined by sport climbers?
Rebel! Fight back!
The word "trad" is hereby banned forever, to be replaced by the word "real."
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
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Thank you Tom & Mr. Milquetoast!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
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"Trad"
Why do we allow ourselves to be defined by sport climbers?
Rebel! Fight back!
The word "trad" is hereby banned forever, to be replaced by the word "real." Darn tootin' straight shootin' Sierra Ledge Rat!
Here here! GAVEL down, BONK BONK on the head!!!
I first heard the term "sport climbing" in 1981 or so when Mike and Mari came back from Europe, same trip when Bachar went over there and put up Chasin' the Train.
They brought that term back with them. Or maybe we got it from Wolfgang Gullich when he visited right around that time. We thought it was kind of awkward; this need to make a distinction for what was essentially poor form and cheating! Ha ha. Denigrating our beloved pastime to some lowly rank such as sport.
But it was a distinction.
Then this abomination "Trad" showed up around the middle of the decade.
Rebel, repent, seek & destroy. Resistance Is Futile. I am trad as hell and just can't take it anymore
Er, I mean I am real. That's it! Must scrub that ... Into ... My gray matter.
All this other stuff doesn't even in reality actually exist.
I feel better now. Thank you so very much!
Heh.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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I think Le Grec was trad as trad can be in the Cassin way
"Contrary to « professionals » and today’s young climbers, he only climbed during week-ends which during his years started only the Saturday afternoons and during his summer holidays which were a maximum of 4 weeks – in his time no 35 hours week and no RTT - le Grec used public transport: so to go and climb on the Bertagne peak, with Sonia and his friends, they were taking the tramway to Aubagne, then the bus to Gémenos and then walking to the foot of the wall. To go to Chamonix, he took the railways and was driving a Vespa to go to the Vercors, it was the vehicle he used for his work as a sales rep for printing material, with which he travelled up and down the Bouches du Rhône, the Var and Vaucluse during 10 years. He waited until his pal Robert Gabriel stopped climbing in 1956 (for wedding reasons) to find a new rope mate, Marc Vaucher who had a Citroen DS and at last enjoyed the comfort and saving time that a car is giving you. Le Grec never learned how to drive as also he never learned how to swim. For a Marseille man that is really taking the cake! Himself stated that he was « a Sunday climber » and not a true « sportsman » as the young stars of today navigating in the 8th grade! Despite this, his list of ascents is still today amazing and above all of high quality: Oh the Livanos routes! Repeating them sufficed to convince oneself that you were part of the better ones! They were a must : "The one who did without bivouaquing the Livanos pillar at Archiane could consider the big North walls…" …Bruno Fara, Climbing years 1970), that is in the Vercors as in Dolomites, then in the 1950s and 1960s, there were much less French climbers there. This is how he concluded his scoring at the end of 1978, when, aged 55, he stopped climbing after 40 years of activity"
The following is a quote from his book Au delà de la verticale:
'The eagle doesn't hunt flies' said one of Tartarin's companions. One day, I had myself written to Robert Paragot : "When you have hunted lions, rabbits look meager. And I will quote "Robert Gabriel: "If I killed myself in the Calanques or in easy ground, I would not dare go out any more".
“Le Grec” lived to be 81 before he died in 2004.
http://www.summitpost.org/georges-livanos-le-grec/774008
Georges Livanos in CASSIN, once upon a time the 6th grade (1982)
"To Have or to Have not" Hemingway: a quotation from Georges's book:
"I will quote Gervasutti, as his judgement much more serene, is one of his peers, his rivals, although this competition always was marked with the highest fair-play: 'He is the man that never backs down once the goal is set. Comici and the Dimai brothers climb the Cima Grande di Laveredo North face in several instances, going up and coming down. Cassin would have stayed on the wall a week, but he would have climbed it. Other climbers are certainly more brilliant: so for example, Comici and Soldà. Comici climbs for pleasure, physical and spiritual, loosing often the result at stake. For Comici, climbing is an end. For Cassin, climbing is a mean. One should not judge Comici solely from his ascents ; many alpinists, in this case, would be superior to him. Cassin, in his case, must be judged from his record, and from this point of view, he fears no comparison." "About his lightning victories, the indestructible 'Veni, vidi, vici' has been used. It defines well the indelible iron mark of the Cassin's style. Caesar revised by Hollywood can be seen in the title of a movie full of gunfire of all calibers : 'I go, I shoot and I come back'. So then... Cassin a hero of swashbuckler novels, of western movies? D'Artagnan and Buffalo Bill? Cassin superman of comics? Why not?"
A few perspectives:
 Weekend climbing/warrior
Public or primitive transport
No sportsman
Never back down
Conquest
Supermen
Comics
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I think the first Time I heard it was from cosgrove about that same time (81). We were in the valley catching up. He mentioned some then controversial climbs he'd done in Boulder/Eldo, climbs on the tip of the climbing pages back then, that I cannot now recall.
"They were okay, for sport climbs..." He said, laconically....,
Hmmmm, maybe that was later and I already knew the term....
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Roy, Thank you for clarifying.
I was at ECHO recently and we were hanging at the "Left Flank" ... you know the less than vert part of ECHO. A young fellow was climbing one of the roots, (they all be sport cause the stone is choss) he was waring a Pack, Gloves, small rack and a big helmet....
I wanted to know what was up with his choice of attire, so I asked him.
"Whats with the gloves?"
"Practicing TRAD".. was his reply.
I was sort of puzzled so I asked about the pack.
"Why the pack?" I asked.
"You always wear a pack when your TRAD climbing" He answered.
So after this little encounter, I was thinking to myself, "Self, you need to get some gloves".....
WE need some photos....
Roy, I have one of the Nick also.... seems like all that boy did was sit around....
Hanging
If you Free Solo is that TRAD?
Even if your wearing tights?????
Or Cowboy Hat????
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oh, you're just fuking around Locker. lol...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
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RRider that's a great big help!
Same excerpt from Fiddler on the Roof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw&feature=youtu.be
Topol enlightens us:
"You may ask, how did this tradition get started?"
"I'll tell you … I DON'T KNOW … And because of our traditions, everyone knows who he is and what God expects him to do."
That's it in a nutshell.
Case closed, see you all at the races!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Then there was last summer in Vedauwoo; Gal, Blitzo, Locker -"we're going sport climbing..."
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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Roy, I have one of the Nick also.... seems like all that boy did was sit around....
No guy that's ME. And you were on that trip! ~ 1978/1979.
Peak 11,440' remember?
When we got home, you and I choked down endless bongloads of Colombian and talked about auto racing and stuff.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Ok, yes, you know your old when it's all blurry and fuzzy...
Now that Im not on the Iphone... it does look like your former self... from the way back.
I do recall the 11.440 failure .... got washed off.
And the Colombian choke out...
unforgettable
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Climbing starts at the bottom and goes up. Sport climbing starts at the top, goes down then up.
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trr2ke
Trad climber
cookeville tn
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How the devil does trad.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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He told my wife he was the devil once.....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
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I do recall the 11.440 failure .... Got washed off.
Whew, thanks for reminding me why we bailed!
I couldn't quite remember; no self-respecting trad climber wants to remember his bad 'ole self as a pussy.
I think the first rap anchor was a number four stopper equalized to a tied off SMC horizontal. Remember how they made their lost arrows? It was like an angle that opened up into a flat blade tip.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
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And Guy, not to disappoint, but per your comment about my health on the other thread: I'm not really doing any better arms wise, I just have new hips and by summer/fall I'm going to try to get out on the rock anyway I can. Gunning for 5.7D. Saddle up!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
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Hey Jay: who is that crusty old Lucifer-esque fart?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
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Well-known sport climber, well yes, just climber really, Wolfgang Gullich engaging in a little trad behavior:
Everybody always talks about how dead guys were so nice and stuff; this guy was actually really nice. And not just nice. He comported himself with equanimity, strength, a touch of empathy and an all-around openness.
He was one of the first Europeans to visit us during that particular era in the early 80s, who really had some good trad chops under his belt.
Ron Fawcett also showed up around that time and boy was he a juggernaut; soloing up and down all kinds of stuff with the kind of momentum and energy that one rarely sees.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Roy... good to know. 5.7D ... TM this Aug? Im down
I recall the day on 11,440... sunny skies, nice 5.9 climbing water formed grooves.... then around midday... the water started running down on US.
And the freaky raps, TRAD climbing demands poor rap anchors.
Went to some old place Al Bartlett "developed" back in the day... the anchors were piles of rocks! No lie.
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