Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
|
The Republican Party is if nothing else a past master at the art of the Big Lie. As perfected most notoriously by Josef Goebbels and Josef Stalin. Say something often enough, convincingly enough, and the great mass of the uncritical will believe anything.
LEB's utter inability to use her critical facilities - she is a professional, after all - and to believe whatever nonsense she hears, is appalling.
Not, of course, that politics necessarily has very much to do with facts.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
|
"Well, actually, that is not quite the figure I am looking for. I want to know what was the figure of the national debt when Bush left office in Jan 2009"
Lois, your persistence on this point is a clear reflection of how little you understand the US economic system. Though Shrub left office with huge deficit, he also left office with budget that he created and had approved (by both sides of the Congressional aisle, mind you) months before his departure. It is that budget that is every bit as egregious as the continuing deficit path Obama has set upon- the difference is that Shrub's deficit was a result of 8 years of his mismanagement of the surplus that was handed to him when he entered office. In Obama's case, he was handed a mega-deficit and a collapsing economy- one may question whether his spending/stimulus strategy was the best choice, but it is undeniable that the place was a shithole when he walked in.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
|
Personally, I believe it is better to find out myself, rather than accept
as true what other people say.
For example, if someone claimed that unemployment rate in 1975 was 80%,
I would not just take their word for it, instead I would do a quick
internet search in less than 30 seconds to find what the rate was,
and then make sure the source I was using was credible, and backed
up by other credible sources.
I once assumed this approach to not ask others, but find out myself,
was the same approach everyone else uses.
I was wrong. Clearly, a lot of people just trust to be true what
they are told by someone else, and do not take the necessary personal
responsibility to verify the facts for themselves.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
|
Total national debt Jan 20 1993 = 4.1 trillion dollars Clinton took office
Total national debt Jan 20 2001 = 5.7 trillion dollars. Bush took office.
Total national debt Jan 20 2009 = 10.7 trillion dollars. Obama took office
Total national debt Jan 20 2010 = 12.3 trillion dollars.
think about how much money just goes to servicing the debt.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
Clinton added 1.6 trillion dollars
Bush added 5 trillion dollars.
Obama has added 1.6 trillion. Most of that was the bailout and economic recovery plan.
Bush was handed a healthy economy with plans to pay off the national debt.
Obama was handed the second largest depression after the great depression, plus two wars.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
|
LEB, you are a registered nurse, and a relatively senior one. Part of your training and work is to gather information, to develop treatment plans. One of the methods of doing so is by interviewing and examining patients. You are undoubtedly taught in nursing school, and yourself teach students, to be very cautious about simply believing what patients tell you, and to look more closely. You could well be subject to professional competency proceedings if you simply believed what a patient told you, despite other evidence, and the patient was thereby harmed.
You don't just uncritically believe what patients tell you. Why would you then believe what the news media, or politicians, tell you?
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
|
Hey, Lois- let's talk about which party is truly 'elitist'. Of course, you and the rest of your FauxNews Republadroids like to pin that on the Dems, but how true is it, really?
In your eyes, or the eyes of Republadroids, what exactly defines 'elitist'? Does it mean going to a good school? Driving a nice car? Having a big house? The books you read? The people you hang out with?
It might interest you to know that the Repugnicans recently had their yearly RNC meeting and retreat, where they talked about deficits, out of control spending, being out of touch with Americans, and no doubt, elitism. You know where they had this Retreat?
Hawaii.
Yes, Hawaii. The same state that they maligned Obama for during the campaign, as being clear, unequivocal evidence of his 'elitism'. I guess that was all politics, right?
Yeah, probably just politics. Which means that all of the 'elitism' namecalling is politics, too. Unless you choose to swallow it, hook line & sinker. You wouldn't do that, would you? You are much more informed than that, right?
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
|
There is a lot of politics that goes into the yearly budget and the national debt. For instance, Bush paid for the Iraq war and the war in Afghanistan with emergency spending bills. These did not show up on his yearly budget, so aren't credited against it and thus don't reflect the true budget deficit he ran.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
|
"At least some of you all have the ability to address issues without foam dripping from your mouth."
You're giving me too much credit. I'm just feeling charitable today.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
|
Another thing to think about. Clinton was the first president to run a surplus. His last two years in office he ran a budget surplus which allowed him to start paying down the deficit. If he hadn't done that, then he would have added about 2 trillion to the deficit instead of the 1.6 trillion that he ended up with.
With Cheney's attitude of "deficits dont matter", bush took a surplus and a healthy economy and added to the deficit. He handed out tax cuts while increasing the deficit.
Could one of you republicans please explain to me how this is sound fiscal policy?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
|
LEB wrote: You do not simply put the person down and cast insults at them when they are seeking information.
I stopped taking you serious a long time ago. Which Lois is posting now?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
|
John wrote: Could one of you republicans please explain to me how this is sound fiscal policy?
Pull a chair and get a drink...you're in for a long wait.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
|
LEB wrote: That is why nothing you say to me holds any credibility for me.
Is that supposed to bother me?? Most of us stopped buying your bull a long time ago.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
|
I am not selling anything.
When you argue with someone in a continous manner, trying to prove your point, then you are selling something.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
|
(Reposting as an attempt to do an LEB-style thread-drift)
Hey, Lois- let's talk about which party is truly 'elitist'. Of course, you and the rest of your FauxNews Republadroids like to pin that on the Dems, but how true is it, really?
In your eyes, or the eyes of Republadroids, what exactly defines 'elitist'? Does it mean going to a good school? Driving a nice car? Having a big house? The books you read? The people you hang out with?
It might interest you to know that the Repugnicans recently had their yearly RNC meeting and retreat, where they talked about deficits, out of control spending, being out of touch with Americans, and no doubt, elitism. You know where they had this Retreat?
Hawaii.
Yes, Hawaii. The same state that they maligned Obama for during the campaign, as being clear, unequivocal evidence of his 'elitism'. I guess that was all politics, right?
Yeah, probably just politics. Which means that all of the 'elitism' namecalling is politics, too. Unless you choose to swallow it, hook line & sinker. You wouldn't do that, would you? You are much more informed than that, right?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
|
LEB wrote: you are one sick person. Prove that you are a nurse and are qualified to give out medical advice.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:42pm PT
|
Question: What Is an Internet 'Troll'?
Answer: An Internet 'troll' is an abusive user who delights in causing disharmony and conflict online. Named after the wicked troll creatures of children's tales, an Internet troll is someone who abuses their online anonymity by purposely sowing hatred, bigotry, racism, mysogyny, or just simple bickering between others. Because trolls enjoy promoting fights between others, they frequent blog sites, news sites, discussion forums, and game chat. Trolls thrive in any online environment where they are allowed to make public comments.
The Sad Truths of Internet Trolls:
Trolls are immune to criticism and logical arguments. True trolls cannot be reasoned with, regardless of how sound your logical argument is.
Trolls do not feel remorse like you and me. They have sociopathic tendencies, and accordingly, they delight in other people having hurt feelings.
Trolls consider themselves separate from the social order.
Trolls do not abide by etiquette or the rules of common courtesy.
Trolls consider themselves above social responsibility.
Trolls gain energy by you insulting them.
Trolls gain energy when you get angry.
The only way to deal with a troll is to ignore him, or take away his ability to post online.
http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/forumsandlists/f/what_is_troll.htm
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
|
You are still trying to sell your point of view. Plus you try to sell the point of view that you are smart.
I'm not trying to say that I am better then you, just trying to get you to see your behavior. You spend a lot of energy telling us how smart you are and that we are stupid for not believing this. This shows low self esteem, which pushes you into trying to sell us on how smart you are. You get very easily trapped in this cycle.
I am not trying to put myself above you because I get trapped in my own cycles. Mine are just different then yours. But saying that you are selling nothing is foolish. We all have something to sell, or we wouldn't be talking politics.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:49pm PT
|
LEB wrote: Bob,
I don't have to "prove" anything to you.
Yes you do...once you start giving medical and mental health advice you owe it to the users on the site to be the professional nurse that you say you are.
I think Chris owes it to the users of this site to really find out what/who you are. You have stepped over so many boundaries...you are out of control.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
|
Hey Bob, how goes it? Really looking forward to the Gunks in October.
Sorry to see you're locking horns with the enigma that is LEB. Resistance does seem to be futile, but just say no. LOL!
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Feb 14, 2010 - 06:01pm PT
|
Mimi...things are really good...thanks for asking. Should be a great time and a really good turnout in October.
The problem with Lois is that you don't know which one you are arguing/debating with at any given time.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!