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Paco
Trad climber
Montana
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I just can't wait until they start sending people to Mars, so they can gridbolt it for my kids, and take their noisy drills and noisier debates far, far away from me, Kraus, and Wiessner.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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and there is also [ . . .] training techniques including bouldering and gym climbing that top Trad climbers use today.
I always laugh when I see the idea that modern training is really "modern." Eric Beck can comment on how he and Sacherer trained when they were stuck in Berkeley. As for bouldering, I offer this:
"[Climbers from outside Yosemite] observed the intense bouldering and training."
This comes from Royal Robbins, "Summary of Yosemite Climbing," Summit Vol. 13, No. 2 (March, 1967).
I agree that technology, particularly footwear and protection, has been a big driver in the rise in standards, but I think at least as big a driver, and probably the biggest, is the competitive spirit and its effect after seeing someone else push the standard of what is possible.
Le plus ca change, le puls c'est la meme chose
John
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ec
climber
ca
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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HA HA, ec! You sew funny.
We be Joe's!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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that is incredibly ironic on so many levels...
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Some thoughts about the free climbing games and subsets that we play (with respect for Lito Tejada Flores having developed the general model in his article, "Games Climbers Play"):
1) Free Climbing - what climbers did before trad (up to around 1972); almost exclusively pins and hand tied slings for pro, one inch swamis; body belays; fall occasionally on some climbs, usually only a few times (see John Stannard Free Climbing as a subset that makes an exception to this rule); no hangs, lower to a rest stance before retry, no pulling on pro, yo-yo occasionally; on some routes better not effing fall
2) Old School Trad - associated with the clean climbing revolution that was catalyzed by the 1972 Chouinard catalog which contained "The Whole Natural Art of Protection" by Doug Robinson; mostly disappeared after cams (Friends) became more widely available around 1980; almost exclusively nuts (primarily hand knotted perlon sling hexes and stoppers) and hand tied slings for pro, two inch swamis (occasional Whillans or Forrest harnesses); usually includes use of chalk; a mix of body belays and belay plates (sometimes a chain link) for belaying; take a few falls on some climbs; no hangs; lower to a rest stance before retry, no pulling on pro, yo-yo once in a while; on some perfectly parallel cracks you either have to work freakishly hard to hang on long enough to get a hex in or can't get a hex to stick, sometimes best to just gun it until you can get something in and hope you don't effing fall; on offwidths you'll either have nothing for pro or you will have wobbly tube chocks that will help you deceive yourself into believing you have pro (using bigbros when aiming to climb Old School Trad might or might not be cheating; let's have a discussion)
2a) Old School Trad (Henry Barber subset) - pull your rope through your high point in order to re-lead your next attempt; occasionally climb barefoot and use only jammed knots for pro
2b) Old School Trad (Arizona subset) - no chalk
2c) Old School Trad (Jim Erikson subset) - no chalk and if you fall you don't try again...ever, unless it's Half Dome
3) Classic Trad - same as Old School Trad except you get to use cams and all the other modern gizmos
4) Modern Trad - same as Classic Trad except you get to hangdog and all the other stuff from sport climbing when climbing Free Climbs (established before 1972) or Trad Climbs (established ground up after 1972; may include hand drilled bolts placed on stance which is the same as for Old School Trad and Classic Trad)
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Paco
Trad climber
Montana
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Somebody stated on here earlier that a FA 'doesn't own the rock.'
I'm not generally a boat-rocker, but I have to disagree, to a very large extent. Short of chipping, a FA's methods are the methods that define that route, and making an attempt to climb a route in the way it was first accomplished is very often the only way to preserve that route.
Obviously, not every first ascent was done in a perfect manner...which brings me to an interesting thought. Shouldn't the same universally acknowledged ethics that set a free ascent higher on the moral ladder than an aid route also discriminate against unnecessary bolting? I'm not saying you have to free-solo a route to make it worthy...but as long as there is sufficient gear to keep you from exposing yourself to a ground fall, why litter the rock with pieces of steel? With all the bolts we buy these days, builders are going to start rioting at prices.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I still think of trad climbing as before the California era. Wool knickers, pitons, some bolts, shoulder stands, pulling on gear, occasional standing in slings, upward progress in a timely manner. free climbing up to 5.10 in horrendous boots and crap gear. Getting to the top and hikeing off. Straight shafted ice axes, Flasks of brandy, wine skins, sausages, breads and cheeses. That is trad climbing to me. The preacher Ken Nichols rock police version is simply annoying.
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Paco
Trad climber
Montana
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tradman... you got a time machine?
Edit: I'll bring some nice fennel goat cheese I picked up the other day.
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pocoloco1
Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
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only clip rusty bolts
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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You can tell a trad climber by the GPIW carabiner on his necklace.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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The underwear over outerwear is definetely a nice touch! It's the attention to detail that makes the whole ensemble come together!!
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Paco
Trad climber
Montana
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Superman emblem shirt is an effective touch.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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it's not the drill, it's the driller?!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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hossjulia
climber
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Walked into the gear shop in El Chorro around 9 am. Musta been a rough night, the disheveled proprietor glared at me with sleepy bloodshot eyes and a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. I was fishing for a partner and completely blew it. I’d been examining the routes and they appeared to be mostly bolted sport climbs. So I tried asking a few questions, in English, and got a full blown big sigh, shake of a shaggy head and more glaring. He goes off, muttering in Spanish, I think, and comes back with a cup which appeared to be coffee. The door WAS open and the lights were on, but it was clearly much too early for conversation. I pushed on, desperate to climb something, anything. Don’t remember exactly what I said, but I know the term “sport climbs” was involved. OMG, if I had been a man, I believe he would have at the least thrown me out of his shop. The rather passionate reply was something along the lines of, El Chorro is NO sport! Ground up, bolted TRAD(itional) climbing! and turned back to his coffee and cigarette. I looked at guides, in Spanish with a rating system I did not know. I hemmed and hawed around, he was kinda scary. Finally taking pity on me, he offers, I guide you, I show you. $200 for half day. Not today. Not even remotely in my budget.
Thoroughly intimidated and disheartened, I declined, bought a topo map of the area, and left.
El Chorro is a (locally proclaimed) trad area. With bolted routes that as far as I could see, did not go all the way to the top of the crags. On further inspection, the bolts were not all that close together and there was gear on some of the racks I saw pass by. But plenty of hanging and working routes in the big cave like amphitheater.
It’s all climbing to me.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Ed,
it's not the drill, it's the driller?!
The annual meeting of the NDA was held at the Sinks Canyon Bar this evening with Steve Babits chairing. The topic was background checks for drillers in that NDA used to say it was not the drill that ruined climbing but the driller. NDA will not support the idea of background checks for drillers despite a lot of boulders are now being drilled that have no routes yet.
DAM, Mothers Against Drillers, wants a full generation (25 years) between being able to purchase a drill and getting drill batteries and drill bits. They think father buys drill then schools son in TRAD for 25 years, father dies and the son/daughter inherits the drill with the legal understanding that such QUALIFIED offspring had met the cool down period for unchecked buying of batteries and drill bits. We suspect Wal Mart will be the first illegal outlet for Chinese lookalikes and they will ignore the Federal Carding.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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You do have a point there. very few should be allowed to drill as most do not have the proper mindset to not screw up the rock. mandatory two year stint with a hand drill might get them to think a bit before drilling but some folks just never get it. i know a few who should have their drills conficated!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Does one pontificate before one "conficates" a drill?
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Can a 12 year old be trad. He wears high top climbing shoes(sometimes with socks), tells me to shut up when I give him too much beta, doesn't clip bolts very often, only climbs several number grades lower than what he is capable of, and knows who Fritz Wiessner is.
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