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Robb
Social climber
It's like FoCo in NoCo Daddy-O!
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Apr 18, 2009 - 02:56am PT
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Kev,
Just banging on bush? You don't know what went on during the Dem's occupancy? Think it's exclusive to either party? Wake up bro it's what we have to deal with out there and in here.
PS: Thanks for the indy!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 18, 2009 - 10:52am PT
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gee davis...
you cant hurt a poet's feeling.
for its guilded by 5000 years of impenetrable dreams.
you paint a prity picture of sewage flowing
down your veins and thought channels.
jackass. you stink.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 06:18pm PT
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The Republican Point of No Return
There was a point not long after the 2006 midterm elections when observers began to note that Republicans were in truly terrible shape, that a staggering number of Senate and House Republicans were acutely vulnerable in their re-elections, and that in all likelihood, if the GOP failed to reconnect with voters, they would suffer even more substantial losses in 2008.
Republicans are in even weaker shape now. The party is contracting in size as it self-marginalizes; the number of voters who identify themselves as Republican is at its lowest point in decades, and nearly every poll shows a dramatic divergence of opinion between self-identifying Republicans and self-identifying Independents. The fight for the "middle voter" has been fought and won by the Democrats, who are consistently viewed as more capable on substantive policy issues than Republicans. A recent Gallup poll showed that 71 percent of voters trust Obama on the economy. That number is built on a strong coalition of Democratic and Independent voters. 97 percent of Democrats and 68 percent of Independents expressed confidence in Obama's handling of the economy, compared to only 38 percent of Republicans. On an issue as critically important to voters as the economy, a 30 point divide in viewpoints between Republicans and Independents spells serious trouble going forward.
If the GOP has any hope of being competitive in the 2010 midterms, it had better figure out a way to appeal to Independents again. But if Republicans had any intention of reconnecting with those voters, this week's headlines don't give any indication.
During the much-panned Republican "tea party" protests, aimed at high taxes (and also wasteful spending and also socialism and also Obama's secret Muslim roots and also his fake birth certificate and also a few other things one might write on a poster board), Texas Governor Rick Perry threatened to secede. Tom Delay defended him - and secession. So did Rush Limbaugh. Republicans touted the protests as an impressive showing of conservative online organizing. But their success in numbers belies a serious problem.
Republicans are right to recognize how critical their capacity to organize will be toward their future electoral success. But as the Republican base gets smaller, and more ideological, organizing the base may very well mean alienating a critical group of voters - just about everyone else. Still Republican politicians are no less dependent on their base for money and volunteers, which may explain the recent propensity of national Republicans to read conspiracy-driven paranoia into the Congressional Record. The complication, of course, is that Republicans who are unable to depend on the GOP base will never build an organization capable of winning elections. But those who do depend on that base will be constrained by a policy agenda well outside the mainstream.
Dylan Loewe
Democratic Strategist
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 18, 2009 - 07:47pm PT
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"We can only hope that eventually high level members, hopefully the highest level members of the bush administration, are yet to be brought to justice and punished for blatantly breaking the law, and covering up the truth, in this matter. There is now no doubt whatsoever that bush/cheney approved of, participated in, and tried to cover up war crimes."
is that so? ever heard of dennis blair? he's obama's director of national intelligence...here he is explaining obama's decision to release previously classified memos from the bush administration dealing specifically with interrogation techniques:
in the months after 9/11, Blair claims, "we did not have a clear understanding of the enemy we were dealing with, and our every effort was focused on preventing further attacks that would kill more Americans. It was during these months that the CIA was struggling to obtain critical information from captured al Qaida leaders, and requested permission to use harsher interrogation methods. The OLC memos make clear that senior legal officials judged the harsher methods to be legal..."
Blair continues: "Those methods, read on a bright, sunny, safe day in April 2009, appear graphic and disturbing. As the President has made clear, and as both CIA Director Panetta and I have stated, we will not use those techniques in the future. But we will absolutely defend those who relied on these memos and those guidelines."
war crimes? well then, it seems obama has concluded that bush's alleged war crimes are acceptable in a time of danger and should not be judged from the "bright, sunny, safe" perspective of hindsight
now what's interesting is the implication that obama believes we are no longer in danger ("bright, sunny, safe"); not safe enough, of course, to end bush's other proven effective security measures--rendition, no civil rights for our gitmo guests, and continued "domestic surveillance"--but, safe enough to stop pouring water on terrorist masterminds...so, obama is willing to "cherry-pick" his war crimes...if we are attacked (god forbid) i give obama about 24 hours before he decides waterboarding "might be acceptable in certain circumstances"
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 08:13pm PT
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AMERICA IS A CENTER LEFT COUNTRY: No Matter How Much the Corporate Media Say Otherwise
By Joshua Holland,
Outside of a few social issues, Americans are firmly in the progressive camp, but that hasn't prevented a lot of bloviating to the contrary.
The American people are center-left (or at least firmly in the center) on the primary matters over which government presides: taxation and debt, public services, the regulation of the economy and America's role in the world.
But that hasn't stopped a lot of bloviating to the contrary. Only moments after the networks declared Barack Obama the winner of a dramatic realignment election, William Bennett, the conservative icon, declared on CNN that "America is still a center-right nation, no matter what anybody says."
Implied was that it also didn't matter what exit polls, mountains of public opinion data, shifts in partisan identification and changes in the country's demographics say. That stuff's apparently for the "reality-based" community to worry about.
Reality: an Election Day poll by the Center for American Progress and the Campaign for America's Future asked whether Republicans had lost because they were too conservative or not conservative enough. By a twenty point margin, voters chose “too conservative”, including independents who agreed by a 21 point margin. Seven out of ten said they wanted the Republicans to work with Obama and “help him achieve his plans,” while fewer than a quarter of respondents thought the GOP should try to keep him from implementing a progressive agenda.
That didn't prevent conservatives, desperate to spin a shellacking at the ballot box, from insisting that the contrary is true. House Minority Leader John Boehner (Ohio) wrote a letter to his despondent — and shrinking — GOP caucus insisting that “Democrats should not make the mistake of viewing Tuesday’s results as a repudiation of conservatism.” And Republican Senator Jim DeMint (South Carolina) had the chutzpah to say that the lopsided election results only proved that “the American people agree with our ideas...”
These are nonsensical talking-points, but as journalist Matt Taibbi told Bill Maher at the height of the campaign, "You can run just about any bullshit up the flag pole, and the mainstream media will simply stand there and salute it, and repeat it seemingly within minutes."
That a great number of pundits did exactly that, immediately taking up the question of whether the U.S is center-right, is just more evidence that much of the traditional media's analysis of American politics is utterly worthless, and should probably just be ignored out of hand.
After all, there's a good deal of hard data (as we’ll see below) showing that Americans lean left on most substantive issues. But it's also a matter of common sense. During the campaign, the Republicans called Obama a socialist, clunkily accused him of being a "wealth redistributor" and held up Joe the Plumber as an example of the burdens small businesses like Exxon-Mobile and JP Morgan would have to bear under an Obama administration. In other words, they made this election explicitly about ideology, and Obama kicked their collective ass.
Again, that brutal beating took place mere moments before the blathering class started gazing into their navels in search of evidence of our center-right essence.
Of course, it is true that our friends in Western Europe, Canada and other liberal democracies scoff at our puritan tendencies on sexual matters. If America’s reaction to Janet Jackson's infamous flash of boob or the widespread perception that the entertainment media are unbearably smutty were legitimate proxies for ideology, then it might be fair to say that we lean rightward. The only issue over which progressives got creamed this year was gay marriage.
It's also true that because of our history, and some unfortunately vague text in our Constitution, there are a good number of Americans whose guns can only be pried from their cold, dead hands. And, finally, we're a heterogeneous, tribal country, and that leads to some resistance to various government programs not seen in wealthy democracies in which most of the population shares a similar ethnic background.
But on health care, trade, international diplomacy, corporate regulation, workers' rights, retirement security, environmental protection and most other matters of substance, the country is pretty clearly in the progressive camp.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 08:18pm PT
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TOP 20 ALL-TIME STUPID REPUBLICAN QUOTES
20. The implication that there was something wrong with the war plan is amusing." --Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, on criticism of his management of the Iraq war
19. If you’ve seen one city slum, you’ve seen them all.-- Spiro Agnew
18. A good many things creep around in the dark besides Santa Claus.--" Herbert Hoover, US President
17."I like the color red because it's a fire. And I see myself as always being on fire." --California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
16. Capital punishment is our way of demonstrating the sanctity of life."-- Orrin Hatch
15. It’s like the neighborhood I would have grown up in, I think, if I had have grown up here." --Alan Keyes, on the Chicago neighborhood he chose to rent in after moving to the state to run for the U.S. Senate
14. If you think the United States has stood still, who would have built the largest shopping center in the world?-- Richard M. Nixon
13. It may come as a shock to you who live out in the real world, but occasionally we do something up here. Not often, I admit, but sometimes. For example, I think the House has passed National Peach Month so far this year and we expect to act on it soon." --Senate Majority Leader (and Presidential candidate) Robert Dole of Kansas in 1982
12."If Lincoln were alive today, he'd be turning over in his grave.—Gerald Ford (on Nixon and Watergate)
11.The Democrats just want to ram it down my ear with a victory---George Herbert Walker Bush
10. Any lady who is first lady likes being first lady. They may say they don’t like but from my experience I know they like it.-- Richard Nixon
9. Isn't that the ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?" --Sen. Rick Santorum
8.These are not bad people. All they are concerned about is to see that their sweet little girls are not required to sit in school alongside some big overgrown Negroes. President Eisenhower commenting on racial segregationalists after the Brown vs. Board of Ed decision.
7. "For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three nonfatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable, and we're going to do something about it" --President George W. Bush
6. The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But I didn't live in this century." Vice President Dan Quayle
5. "President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale."--Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, testifying before Congress
(Quick! Somebody phone Al Gonzalez and tell him there were no phones or electricity during the Washington and Lincoln administrations)
4. I feel the best way to ensure Americans' freedom is to tighten restrictions on that freedom in any way possible. Only through wiretaps, illegal searches and seizures, unfettered government intrusion, a controlled media and a complete crackdown on free speech can we ensure the liberties of all people." -- Attorney General John Ashcroft
3. I think gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
2. "What a terrible thing to have lost one's mind. Or not to have a mind at all. How true that is."- Vice President Dan Quayle
1. Hmmm, uhh, hah -- ummm -- I, the answer is -- I haven't really thought of it that way, heh, heh. Heh. Here's how I think of it. Ummm -- heh heh. First I've heard of that, by the way, I, ah -- uhh -- the, uhh -- I, I guess I'm more of a practical fella. Uhh. I vowed after September the 11th that I would do everything I could to protect the American people. And, uhh -- my attitude, of course, was affected by the attacks.ha ha ...ummm Let me see... I knew we were at a war. I knew that the enemy, obviously, had to be sophisticated, and lethal, to fly hijacked airplanes, uhh, into -- facilities that would, we would, killing thousands of people, innocent people, doin' nothing, just sittin' there goin' to work."--President George W Bush, after being asked if the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism are signs of the
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Apr 18, 2009 - 08:31pm PT
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Dan Quayle quotes? Oh thats dirty.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 08:43pm PT
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This should be read again:
07.04.2009
AMERICANS MORE OPTOMISTIC, STILL HATE THE GOP
The latest New York Times poll is loaded with good news for the Obama administration and news that would be devastating for the GOP if it were ever able to penetrate the conservative-media echo chamber. While the public is still pretty pessimistic about the future, it's considerably less so than it was before Barack Obama took office. Thirty-nine percent of respondents in the Times poll think the country is going in the right direction and 53 percent say the wrong direction, a substantial improvement from January, when the numbers were 15 and 79, respectively. Similarly, 20 percent of those polled think the economy is getting better and 34 percent worse, versus 7 and 54 in January.
But it's the political numbers that are truly striking. Obama has a 66 percent approval rating, which is the highest this poll has recorded, while the GOP's favorability is at 31 percent, the lowest the poll has recorded in 25 years of asking the question. Arguably more remarkable still is that, asked whether Obama or the GOP Congress would be more likely to make "the right decisions about the nation's economy," respondents broke for Obama 63 percent to 20 percent. That means that even within the 31 percent rump that holds a positive view of the GOP, at least a third trust Obama's instincts on the economy equally or more. And why shouldn't they? Despite Rush Limbaugh's best efforts just 2 percent of respondents blame Obama for the state of the economy, compared to 33 percent who blame George W. Bush. (Wall Street and Congress come in for 21 and 11 percent, respectively.)
The Democratic Party, while not as popular as its leader, is still pretty popular, with 56 percent favorability. Moreover, 19 percent fewer respondents think the Democrats are too heavily influenced by "big business" than feel the Republicans are, and the Dems have a massive 35-point edge on the question of "which party is more concerned with the needs and problems of people like yourself." The poll also gives the Dems a 16-point edge in respondent self-identification, up from 10 points in February, and just a tick off the inaugural high of 18 points. (Without sifting through the figures too obsessively, this looks like the largest edge since 1992.)
There's more along these lines on taxes (74 percent of respondents think raising them on those earning over $250K is a "good idea"), health care (57 percent say they're willing to pay higher taxes themselves for universal coverage), foreign policy, and the like. The usual caveats all apply, of course--it's just one poll (though others seem to generally conform), public sentiment is volatile, etc., etc. Still, I encourage anyone interested to give the whole poll a look.
--Christopher Orr
Posted: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:11 PM with 15 comment(s)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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help us out TGT, what exactly is your point tonight?
I don't have time to read some Iowa hawk link
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 18, 2009 - 10:14pm PT
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That's why you will be a willing Serf.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 10:19pm PT
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what?
a willing serf? what are you talking about?
Oh wait, I get it, this is your idea of insulting me, right?
How clever of you!
that all you got left, make up some 14th century serf insult?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 18, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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Those without the intellectual curiosity to see what all sides are up to will always be the serfs of those that set the agenda.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Got it, thanks.
Your base is shrinking fast, your party will not be setting the agenda for a long time. So, you must be a "serf".
Yeah Skip, ok I meant what I said.
I can't stand ignorance, and yes I do think anyone who voted to put Caribou Barbie one heartbeat from being Commander in Chief IS IGNORANT.
And again, yes, I do enjoy insulting ignorant people. They deserve it. And yes I do believe anyone dumb enough to vote for Sarah Palin should be insulted. They deserve it.
So there, you can keep repeating what I said, big f*#king deal.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 18, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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You pups should be ashamed of your party, and yourselves for voting Republican.
Nothing lasts forever. When a political party is no longer relevant and is out of step with what exists in the present and insists on re-living the no longer existing past, …that political party is destined to be viewed as a dead man walking.
The Republican party is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, it is out of touch with 21st century america and consequently has become an obstical in america’s progress toward a progressive and enlightened future. Under the Bush years the republicans were a thorn in the side of the entire world, and the world reacted with a sigh of relief, and hope for the future when the republicans were defeated in their attempt to hold on to the reins of power.
The political center is in the process of shifting away from all what existed in our no longer relevant past and is moving toward a more relevant present by adopting measures that favor the general public and are opposing measures that tend to favor the special interests of the rich and mighty.
It is my opinion that the Obama administration and the democratic party will attempt to compromise with much of what occured in the past, so as to become a more relevant centrist american political party. With the passage of time the republican right wing political party will go out of existence and the present day democratic party will replace the republican party as being the new representative of the party that represents the recent traditional past. That particular change will give rise to a new main- streame political party that will represent the moving away from the no longer relevant traditions of the past and toward a new more relevant left wing progressive future.
History has shown that you cannot stop progress, and progress has always been the movment of the masses of people to the left of the political spectrum.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 19, 2009 - 09:44am PT
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notice how the conversation suddenly turned away from "war crimes" when evidence was presented that obama considers so-called war crimes acceptable?
conservative: "here's proof"
liberal: "you're an a**hole"
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 19, 2009 - 09:54am PT
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democratic leader nancy pelosi on her continued support for public funding for embryonic stem cell research:
"We're saying science is an answer to our prayers"
"The justification, I think, is clear, in terms of the progress that has been made"
she couldn't be more wrong...there has been NO PROGRESS in developing new treatments/cures through embryonic stem cells despite decades of research...the progress has been made with adult stem cells and in a very short time
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apogee
climber
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Apr 19, 2009 - 10:42am PT
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bookworm-
You omitted some of the dialogue details- it usually goes something like this:
conservative: "here's proof"
liberal: "You call that FauxNews biased Krap® 'proof'?"
conservative: "Obama is Hitler! It says right here!"
liberal: "you're an a**hole"
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
dangling off a wind turbine in a town near you
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Apr 19, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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"As disturbing as it is, Obama's reluctance to prosecute [Bush] is not a crime."
Bullsh#t. Crime is crime, and failure of the legal authority to prosecute those responsible amounts to abetting.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Apr 19, 2009 - 01:15pm PT
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The new definition of torture...
Torture: When people do things that hurt you.
Interrogations: What you do that hurts other people.
Since when did torture get the same fuzzy lines as pornography?
TGT said: "Those without the intellectual curiosity to see what all sides are up to will always be the serfs of those that set the agenda. "
Glad to see that you are as bewildered at the Teabaggers as I am.
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