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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Does anyone know when aluminum carabiners displaced steel biners in common use in Yosemite?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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There is nothing like "rocket science" when it comes to climbing technique and equipment. Given the intelligence and education levels of climber I have always been puzzled by the glacial progress in the development of technique and gear.
I mean, really, front pointing on ice took a century to figure out.
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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Like K Kid I also used the 4-biner brake for years and still when necessary.
I've a distinct memory from my first Valley wall climb in spring 72', on the south face of the Column. Late on our first day I led the Kor roof, then prepared to rap back to Dinner ledge using my 9 mm perlon haul line (first kermantle rope I owned). The exposure was terrifying and I remembered a rap while descending on Denali the summer before where I left a serac on the same rope, single line running thru 4-biners (doubled, gates reversed) and dropped like a rock. I was carrying a heavy pack. Scared the sh#t out of me.
Back to the Column with that memory fresh I decided to add another 6 biners for friction. Big mistake as I bobbled my way down with way too much resistance. Next morning I was to jug back up and partner Guy would clean the roof. I was scared the moment I left Dinner ledge not realizing more to come. As I approached the roofs corner I could see major fray caused by the bobbling rap prvious nite. Knowing I had to remove a jug, push out
And reconnect As I swore away Guy yelled up what's wrong? I screamed "shut up, I'm freaking" and made the transition with adrenaline pulsing. The roofs edge had worn well into the core. Learned to leave a piece of my Levi's for protection!
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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In the midwest/east starting in '63, basically the same as others from that vintage. Started with body rappel (Dulfersitz) on Goldline (and I still believe, as stated upthread a bit, that everyone should learn and practice this--and a body belay--just in case). But soon transitioned to swami belt (nylon tape webbing was just becoming widely available)and leg loops. Some folks bought a lot of webbing and basically created their own primitive harnesses, but most of us just used a webbing sling in a figure 8 as removable leg loops. Initially using this system for rappels we'd pass the lower part of the rope through 2 biners with reversed gates (or a--rare--locking biner)clipped into both the waist and leg loops but then have the upper part of the rope run over the shoulder and across the back as in the body rappel. Pretty soon--especially for longer and steeper rappels, biner brakes (or brake bars for some)became the norm, though my memory is that we only used 4 biners, not 6--however 6 does make more sense so maybe my memory is wrong. All these transitions happened within a quite short span of time--and I didn't think that any of these were 'new' techniques--it is just that more 'equipment' became available to enable us to utilize them. In those days there were no stores selling climbing equipment in the midwest and only a couple in the northeast (and, really, only a handful in the rest of the country)so most gear had to be ordered from the west (Colorado or Seattle) or Europe.
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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Such an honor to see/feel some of the ST postings and by whom. Never met you Al ^^^^^ but revered your early Mountain Mag corespondent days, and when I climbed w' Johnny on Hunter south ridge. Your comments in the J. Waterman appreciation thread are as spot on as any I've read or personally felt.
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BBA
Social climber
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Rip van Winkle here… In early June 1960 I was invited up the Lost Arrow by Royal to join him and Janie Taylor. This was a horrible experience because I had never prusiked, done hardly any rappelling (it hurt too much) and wasn’t ready to step around from the Notch to the exposed face. We all used the Dulfersitz method to get back down to the Notch. I had an old Army surplus green jacket which I brought along to protect my shoulder. That one pitch rappel off the Arrow was the longest in the world, to hear my crotch tell about it.
I worked in the summer then came back at the end of August and remember using the carabiner brake to descend Apron climbs in my several trips up that area through September and October. My recollection supports what Tom Kimbrough wrote in this thread on Jan 17, as any new technique used by top climbers spread like wildfire.
It occurred to me that the system was not as safe as it could be. If you used two carabiners, a gate might open, and if you had a bar, it might flip up. If a rappel was going to be part of the plan for a climb, I brought two locking carabiners which I believe were steel Army surplus. Aluminum was expensive.
Bill Amborn
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Initially using this [swiss seat] system for rappels we'd pass the lower part of the rope through 2 biners with reversed gates (or a--rare--locking biner)clipped into both the waist and leg loops but then have the upper part of the rope run over the shoulder and across the back as in the body rappel.
Yup, that's what we all did for quite a while. I had a horrendous experience with this once rappelling in the (SD) Needles. I only had a t-shirt on top and the rope burned a groove in my neck/shoulder, leaving a scar that took years to disappear. It was an overhanging rappel, and the rope was covered with a fine grit of crystals from the Needles rock. The urge to let go and relieve the pain was almost overwhelming in spite of the obvious fatal consequences.
Shortly after that epic Bob Kamps taught me an obvious variation: stuff your t-shirt down the back of your pants for padding and instead of passing the rope over your shoulder, run it around your back at hip level as you would for a hip belay. Poof---problem solved. That's the way I rappelled until carabiner brakes became the better way.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Happy---Thanks for the compliments. Obviously you spent time with Johnny on Hunter so must have experiences of your own to add to that thread--which is due for a 'bump' anyway.
Rich--I never saw or even thought of a 'hip' rappel--except maybe on very low angle terrain. Trying to picture it, it seems like the 'center of balance' would be 'off', even on moderately steep terrain and more so as it got steeper--increasing the likelihood of tipping over backwards and losing control. Obviously you used this method and are still around, but can you explain why this wouldn't be a significant risk with your described technique or how you were able to counter it. Alan
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Alan, the main pivot point is at the carabiner in either method. If you are doing the classical method and pivot backwards around that point, the rope over your shoulder doesn't try to lengthen, as I think it is the radius of the circle arc traced by the shoulder. If this is correct, then the rope over the shoulder doesn't provide any resistance to tipping over and so the hip method is no worse in that regard.
In any case, there is always the "feeling hand" to keep you upright. I never had any problems even on overhanging rappels.
It is interesting that method which was so superior for lightly-clad rappellers never gained any general acceptance or even recognition. But those were days when there were only a few books, whose authors apparently assumed that there was an inch of Swiss boiled wool between every potentially vulnerable part of anatomy and the rope, and information dispersed slowly if at all, since climbers only communicated by word of mouth (and maybe a letter every now and then).
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Happy Cowboy
Social climber
Boz MT
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Feb 10, 2017 - 10:19am PT
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Perhaps not probable some clarification to comments Al made above.
A "4 biner brake" IMO refers to the braking/friction properties of the technique. In practice 2 additional biners were often needed for the 4 biners to lay flat when connected to a swami.
Of relevance, I just finished reading "The Shining Mountain" by Peter Boardman "Two men on Changabang's West Wall" curtesy Avery (mentioned in his "Genuine Collectable" thread). Early on the climb Boardman drops his Clog descender, "we had not any spares. I fumbled for some Karabiners and clipped six of them together to form a friction brake". He continues in this manner for the entire rest of their epic climb, with frost nipped fingers no less! Later Tasker on their final descent drops his and comments "how difficult this must've been for Peter". This was Fall, 1975.
This got me thinking, 6 biners must've meant no locking biner used. More so the role Clog played. If my memory serves me well(Thanks Levon)Clog was my first figure eight but importantly first trustworthy locking biner?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2017 - 11:44am PT
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So many things wrong with this 1941 Canadian Rockies body rappel shot. OUCH!
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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May 29, 2017 - 12:49am PT
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In the early 1970s I practiced the Dulfersitz off the roof of a house many times. Lose the proper orientation and the rope will ride up out of the crouch resulting in total failure. I think it's extremely dangerous. The picture above shows it at its worst. I happily adopted the carabiner brake.
Rappelling - Be Vigilant! thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1662153&tn=140
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