Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 02:57am PT
|
more than once
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:03am PT
|
So what are you going to do?
Kill someone over some beef that's not even a criminal matter, but just a civil case?
Kill someone over a non-violent property disagreement?
|
|
Bargainhunter
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:07am PT
|
Also, as I recall mainstream media portrayed both protagonists in Waco and Ruby Ridge in a very dismissive light: religious wackos and racist white supremacists. By this biased stigma, it was very easy for ambivalent Americans to dismiss them as lunatics and cheer on the FBI snipers in Idaho and the tanks terrorizing the Koresh compound.
The same thing could happen to any number of other marginalized, unusual or eccentric groups out there. A Sikh community in the Central Valley or a Vegan "intentional community" commune, and yes you by your dirtbag mobile chilling with your friends post climb...
While I am supportive of law enforcement in general, there is a balance of being fair and not abusing power. Some of us have witnessed some egregious abuses of that power, and that can quickly flip one from being a mainstream supporter to being more empathetic with the "fringe elements."
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:11am PT
|
I agree that the federal government needs to use restraint in their actions, but how long should this go on? This has been going on for 20 years? What should the government do? The courts have said the Bundy's have lost their case. So what now? Just ignore the court?
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:12am PT
|
Not a fking peep from you ecofreaks about that.
That is patently false and ignorant.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:21am PT
|
It isn't suddenly now. The man has been taken to court multiple times to try and get him to come into compliance. It appears to me that the feds have been bending over backwards to try and work with this man, even though the courts have sided with the feds multiple times. And now the mans time is up.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 03:24am PT
|
Chief, there is a difference between land set aside for blowing up things, and land set aside as a preserve. Was the land that was set aside for a preserve really needed as a preserve? I have no idea. The courts have sided against this man multiple times. and I tend to believe that he doesn't have a case because up until the feds started removing his cattle, the nevada cattlemen's association hasn't sided with this guy. He didn't have a case. But now that public sympathy can be brought in, they are complaining. So they knew all along the man didn't have a case. If he had a case, then they would have been hollering about it years ago. If it was a strong case they probably would have helped with lawyers and such.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 05:13am PT
|
John M: It isn't suddenly now. The man has been taken to court multiple times to try and get him to come into compliance. It appears to me that the feds have been bending over backwards to try and work with this man, even though the courts have sided with the feds multiple times. And now the man's time is up.
Exactly, he had all due process, his days in court, and yet still not yielding in the matter - in fact, he says he doesn’t recognize federal authority over state land - i.e, he's a complete whackjob and the feds have had enough. They've stepped in to being the matter to a close once and for all. Again, he doesn't have a single legal or constitutional leg to stand on. Period. Anyone claiming to the contrary is ignorant or misinformed.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:21am PT
|
Be sure to bitch about it and ask for militia support when your car gets towed 20 years later.
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:40am PT
|
Find another hero, right wingers. Don't hitch your wagons (or SUV) to this idiot.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:42am PT
|
For those wondering: why are cops needed here in the first place?
Over the years, the Department of Justice has more than once canceled BLM plans to round up the trespass cattle after blatant threats of violence from Bundy and his supporters, says Alan O’Neill, retired superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area adjacent to the allotment.
...
As Rob Mrowka, Las Vegas office of the Center for Biological Diversity senior scientist who has endured threats from Bundy and his supporters via email
https://www.hcn.org/blogs/goat/in-nevada-delicate-20-year-standoff-with-blm-ends-in-a-tense-roundup
Anyone here ever not pay their rent to a landlord?
What happened?
Did the dispute last 20 years?
I think it's funny how people here scream the Feds are being unreasonable, after enduring 20 years of going round and round legally with that delusional mooch.
. In 1997, Clark County purchased all active grazing permits in the area in accordance with the new federal Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan and the county’s own Desert Conservation Program, offering Bundy compensation for water rights and range improvements on his former allotment. Bundy rejected the offer. In 1999, the Nevada District Court permanently banned Bundy from grazing cattle in the area, ordering him to remove them or face a $200 penalty per cow per day. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the injunction. Between 2008 and 2011, the BLM cancelled Bundy’s remaining range improvement authorizations. In 2011 Bundy ignored several court orders, including a notice of impoundment. Over the next two years, the BLM aerially counted first 903, then 729, then 600, then 750 head of cattle, nearly all suspected to belong to Bundy, on land closed to grazing.
"It's my land"--it was never his fooking land. Maybe he believes in fairies and pixies . Should we indulge that too?
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:43am PT
|
Find another hero, right wingers. Don't hitch your wagons to this idiot
Bingo.
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:46am PT
|
This is all about the Feds flexing so the 99% stays quiet while the 1% takes more of the resources.
amazing how many of you defend the Feds who rape and pillage the land, then charge you out the ass to climb and recreate on YOUR public land.
What is it to climb for a day in the Valley now? $20 25? Edward Abby I'm sure would be proud of you lining the Feds pockets to enter your land.
The Chinese will own vast tracts of BLM land and once they ask for payment of US debt. Ranchers will be writing checks in Yen in 20 years.
|
|
rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 09:51am PT
|
the Chinese will own vast tracts of BLM land and once they ask for payment of US debt. Ranchers will be writing checks in Yen in 20 years.
Oh noes!
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:01am PT
|
The Chinese currency is yuan. The Japanese currency is Yen.
I believe both will prefer to be paid in dollars.
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:14am PT
|
For now. The 1% will pay whatever to whomever to keep power.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:18am PT
|
There were several other agreements made along the way between the FEDS and Bundy's. Most of which were done prior to 1912. It is all in the suite filed by Bundy.
Lots of land was already owned by previous purchases and Homestead Acts that were current back in 1888.
so it was the Homestead Act... until someone shows it it would be impossible for Bundy to acquire that much land through the Homestead Act... then it were several other agreements... and it is all clearly laid out in the suite filed by Bundy, which was turned down numerous times.
Hey Chaz, did you read the one about the BLM agents who went to get the cattle off THEIR land, only to leave hastily due to threats of violence. Yeah, what are they going to do with those peaceful protestors simply exercising their 1st amendment right they think gives them the right to make threats using the 2nd?
|
|
Larry Nelson
Social climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:30am PT
|
[quote]rmuir wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on Supertopo:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/preemption.htm[/quote]
Supremacy Clause:
Hmmmm.
In light of that law, or clause, it appears we have massive civil disobedience to federal drug laws going on in Colorado, Washington state and many others.
I don't imagine there will be a need for drug militias as the feds are too overwhelmed on this front.
We might consider repealing most immigration laws as the feds seem to be overwhelmed on the immigration front as well.
Maybe there's just too many federal laws on the books. Who can keep track?
|
|
Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2014 - 10:50am PT
|
Nothing to see here, just another right-winger leaching off the taxpayer.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!