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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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ALmost as much as I love kooky "sources."
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:38pm PT
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Are you still waiting for the "CIA Newspaper" delivery, dirt?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:39pm PT
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Wow! I'm aligned with dirtbag on this one.
John
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:56pm PT
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"Are you still waiting for the "CIA Newspaper" delivery, dirt? "
How about a legit. MSM source--any legt MSM source--tackling this, if there is a "this" to tackle? That would be quite a scoop, but 8 years later--nada!
Oh wait, I forget that the entire MSM is in cahoots too.
Personally, I love conspiracy hypotheses. I can have fun making them up all day long. It's like make believe for adults!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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It never stops amazing me how some here at ST have their head soooo buried in the sand. How does in feel to breath sand? It must be suffocating . . . free yourself.
Do you "Doubting Thomases" know who Sibel Edmonds is??? She is the most gagged woman in the US who worked for US intellegence in translating. This is beyond disbute. Now why would our government place Sibel under an extreme gag order? Well, it seems she has had enough of it and she is spilling the beans. She is a hero.
"State Secrets
Sibel has famously been dubbed the most gagged woman in America, having the State Secrets Privilege imposed on her twice. Her 3.5 hour testimony to the 9/11 Commission has been entirely suppressed, reduced to a single footnote which refers readers to her classified testimony. In the interview, she says that the information that was classified in her case specifically identifies that the US was using Bin Laden and the Taliban in Central Asia, including Xinjiang. In the interview, Sibel reiterates that when invoking the gag orders, the US government claims that it is protecting " 'sensitive diplomatic relations,' protecting Turkey, protecting Israel, protecting Pakistan, protecting Saudi Arabia..." This is no doubt partially true, but it is also true that they are protecting themselves too, and it is a crime in the US to use classification and secrecy to cover up crimes.
As Sibel says in the interview:
I have information about things that our government has lied to us about... those things can be proven as lies, very easily, based on the information they classified in my case, because we did carry very intimate relationship with these people, and it involves Central Asia, all the way up to September 11.
Summary
The bombshell here is obviously that certain people in the US were using Bin Laden up to September 11, 2001."
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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So what? A lot of what she wants to say is top secret, so the feds told her to shut up. BFD. Tin Foilers would put a milk man on a podium if he was the one person blabbing about this nonsense and supporting their view.
So how come no serious newspaper--and kooks like Mike MAlloy, Democratic Underground, etc. don't count--will touch this bunk with a tin foot pole?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
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It's funny that folk will diss a source they are not familiar with, then turn around and site something like Popular Mechanics (or such) to back up their own viewpoint.
Dr F, not a crazy country--just a land filled WITH crazies!
BTW, over time, more "conspiracy theories" have been shown and proven right than CIA covert operations have been successful. FWIW
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rick d
climber
tucson, az
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
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So what. Bin Laden is dead and has been for I would wager 5 years. There are things in this life to worry about (like excessive bolting, chipping, etc) and bullshiat like who killed Kennedy etc.
the boogie man is dead drop it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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This is about as rational as the birthers.
Hope you guys don't lose sleep over this nonsense.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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"I beleive it, Bush planned and let 911 happen "
Is bush an idiot, or a conspiratorial genius?
He can't be both.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
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I just heard this exact same thing! Told to me by a guy outside the Circle K with a shopping cart full of cans, bottles, a bust of the Virgin Mary, and a Pomeranian wearing a foil hat.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Where did you two go climb and hang out at, Russ?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:09pm PT
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I took him over to Blitzo's house and dropped him off. I think they are doing some Bible Study or something today.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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Oh and let's don't forget that Bin Laden died in Dec 2001.
He had kidney failure, remember, and was on dialysis. He had been hospitalized in July, 2001.
His last clearly authentic video was aired on Dec 27 2001, and he appeared gaunt, possibly having had a stroke.
December 13- 14 were the last of what had been his frequent radio communications, and he hasn't been heard from since.
A Dec 15 funeral was reported in Pakistani newspapers, and his death was acknowledged at the time by the Bush administration, including Rumsfeld, Oliver North, and Isreali intelligence.
Dozens of videos since have featured various figures younger, healthier, right-handed (Bin Laden was left-handed), different nose, different hands, and speaking in a much less religious tone.
Remember how the whole theme of capturing Bin Laden faded after 2004? Yet this dead horse is still being beaten, as Clinton just recently alluded to hunting for Bin Laden and al-Qaeda in the mountains of Pakistan.
[url}http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23122.htm[/url]
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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I do not know if Bin Laden is dead or alive. It really doesn't matter. What matters is keeping the concept of a "Boogey Man" alive. FEAR. FEAR. FEAR. How come we don't use the color code anymore? I think that everyone saw through that too easily. It was a joke.
They will re-edit and re-play Bin Laden tapes until the cows come home as long as it serves their purpose as a boogey man. And we will hunt his ghost until then also. As long as the American public are asleep and M$M doesn't cover the truth this whole propaganda capaign is CIA textbook and it works. Just see the responses in this thread to those who think nothing of it.
They swallow the line, hook, line and sinker all the way, and very easily.
Sibel Edmonds is telling the truth as well as many others who are in positions to know within our government, and yet no one listens. Everything is labelled a "conspiracy" and "tin-foil hat" and everyone goes back to sleep including many here on ST. Sad, so sad. ST is a microcosm in some ways of the world around us. The thing is conspiracies do happen. People do collude and plan secretly to do harm and evil, and often they get away with it. Especially when you have as much practice at it as our CIA. Their whole mission is covert. It is their mission to lie.
Yea, yea, yea . . . conspiracies never happen. WAKE UP!
Hundreds of FBI agents arrest powerful American Jews involved in international Jewish conspiracy
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=2749
Oliver Stone: JFK and the Unspeakable
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/oliver-stone/jfk-and-the-unspeakable_b_243924.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6134490
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/nbc-to-air-newly-discover_n_133777.html
276 of 296 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars And We Are All Mortal, June 8, 2008
By Nick Anez - See all my reviews
In James W. Douglass' outstanding new book, "JFK and the Unspeakable," the author explains the title in his introduction. Coined by spiritual writer Thomas Merton, The Unspeakable refers to "an evil whose depth and deceit seemed to go beyond the capacity of words to describe." Regarding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the Unspeakable succeeded due to deniability by the nation's citizens of the horrifying truth of the event and to plausible deniability by the government agencies responsible for the murder. (Vincent Bugliosi's recent fictional paperweight is a perfect example of the plausible deniability that allows the Unspeakable to thrive.)
Many excellent books have proven that the assassination of JFK was the result of a conspiracy. Douglass verifies the certainty of the conspiracy and, as the subtitle of the book states, explains "Why He Died and Why It Matters." He scrutinizes the historical facts surrounding the assassination, from the creation of the CIA to the gradual obliteration of the freedoms upon which this nation was founded.
This book is primarily the story of John F. Kennedy who changes from a Cold Warrior to an altruistic leader willing to risk his life to ensure that the world's children will not become victims of a nuclear catastrophe. Equal time is spent on JFK's presidency as on the assassination but one of the many rewards of this book is the author's capacity to show the relationship between his policies and his death. And the book is a tragedy because it gradually becomes obvious that each step he makes toward peace steadily increases the hatred of his enemies who will eventually betray him.
It is also the story of the designated patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald. Moved around the country like a pawn by government agencies (as was the second "Oswald"), he was being set up as the scapegoat. Enter some despicable characters, including David Atlee Philips, James Hosty and, of course, Michael and Ruth Paine. Simultaneously, the Soviet Union was being set up as the evil empire behind the assassination, along with its satellite Cuba.
Douglass credibly illustrates the origin of the Crime of the Century. During President Truman's administration, the CIA was empowered to be a paramilitary organization with unlimited powers. Truman's successor, President Eisenhower, fell out of favor with the CIA when he planned a summit meeting with Soviet Premier Khrushchev. This was cancelled after a U.S. spy plane crashed in Russia. Eisenhower had reportedly ordered such flights cancelled and had his suspicions about who had ruined his peace plan. He subsequently issued his warning about the "military industrial complex" in his farewell address. But he didn't defy "this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry." He left that task to his successor, JFK.
The Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba was planned by the CIA to regain control of the island and to re-open the casinos for organized crime. President Kennedy refused to provide air support for the Cuban brigade because he knew that he had been lied to by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and by the CIA; the invasion had been designed to fail without U.S. support but they hadn't told this to JFK who refused to fall into their trap. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK once again enraged the CIA and the Joint Chiefs by resisting their tremendous pressure on him to take military action which would have led to nuclear war.
Following that crisis, JFK became intent on ending the Cold War by establishing a peaceful relationship with the Soviet Union. However, many CIA and Pentagon personnel believed that it was better to be "dead than red" and that it was preferable to destroy civilization rather than let the Communists rule. They also knew that war generated billions of dollars into the arms industry. As a result, they would repeatedly subvert the President's policies and isolate him within his own government. Enter some more despicable characters: Richard Bissell, Charles Cabell, Henry Cabot Lodge, Lyman Lemnitzer, Curtis LeMay and perhaps the most contemptible of all, Allen Dulles. Ironically, JFK learned to trust Khrushchev more than people within his own government.
At American University on June 10, 1963, JFK spoke about his desire for world peace. He communicated his resolve to form a new relationship with Khrushchev. He spoke about the necessity of a pursuit toward disarmament. He related his intentions to establish a Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. He acknowledged his country's past faults and recognized the Russian people as wanting peace as much as the American people. "And we are all mortal," he stated. Though this extremely important speech was ignored in the United States, it was disseminated throughout the Soviet Union, per order of Khrushchev, who was prepared to respond favorably to JFK's peace initiative. The speech also certified JFK's death warrant. With so many powerful enemies opposing his policies and hating him, JFK didn't have a chance as he was being maneuvered into the crossfire in Dallas.
President Kennedy was aware of the power of his enemies and he knew the dangers facing him. But he persevered and mandated that all U.S. personnel would be withdrawn from Vietnam; he was determined to never send in combat troops even if this meant defeat. He also refused to intervene militarily in Laos. He exchanged private letters with Khrushchev, which infuriated the CIA, and secretly initiated plans to attain rapproachement with Cuba, which further incensed the Agency. Cuba's Fidel Castro, whom the CIA hated as intensely as it hated Kennedy, was equally eager to begin an American-Cuba dialogue. In fact, Castro was meeting with a JFK representative when the President was murdered. JFK died a martyr and the forces of evil that killed him also killed his vision of peace.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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"I do not know if Bin Laden is dead or alive. It really doesn't matter. What matters is keeping the concept of a "Boogey Man" alive. FEAR. FEAR. FEAR"
You seem to be the most afraid of bogeymen of all of us.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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"BTW, over time, more "conspiracy theories" have been shown and proven right than CIA covert operations have been successful. FWIW"
Prove it.
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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Oil, power, Afghanistan 101
Unocal, the California energy giant, worked with the Taliban for years before 9/11 attempting to secure a pipeline across Afghanistan to Pakistan and a port on the Arabian Sea so that oil from the "stan" countries to the north of Afghanistan could be shipped to the U.S. and other countries without having to go east through Russian controlled territory, ie the Black Sea.
Before that, the U.S. empowered the mujahadin (Mike Hoover, CBS) in their fight against Soviet invaders, but abandoned Afghanistan afterward. The Taliban stepped in, some contend, to establish law and control, albeit their own, in a nation divided by warlords (Taliban "ambassador" who was schooled at Yale).
Daniel Yergin, in "The Prize" contends that all major conflicts since oil became our major energy supply revolve around the axle that is its ownership, production and distribution.
U.S. diplomats frequently refer to American "interests." We don't have friends when it comes to global politics.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 31, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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What Anguish says is detailed quite expensively in the great book, "Ghost Wars". Since the Al Queda Africa attacks, Bin Laden has had a price on his head by the US, and we have tried to kill him repeatedly. Once blowing up his farm with 75 Cruise missiles during the Clinton administration. Anything is possible, but I highly doubt we have had anything to do with Bin Laden since the attacks. Yet one has to wonder why he is possibly still alive if that is true.
The Yergin book, "The Prize" is exellent and a top 100 choice as well. There was a reason it won the Pulitzer prize.
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