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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 3, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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Ratings are incredibly subjective. What seems really easy for one party might feel loose or desperate to the next. A lot of folks ask me about wall routes and because they're are so many in the "looking for some adventure/challenge but not looking to perish" intermediate range I thought it would be good to try to break them up further.
I haven't climbed all these routes so they're are definitely some educated guesses here and probably a few mistakes.
Because they're so many ties in difficulty I didn't number the list, but I did try to put the easier ones at the beginning and the harder ones later even within the sub categories.
Look forward to your feedback
"Easy"
Lurking Fear
West Face
Triple Direct
Nose
Salathe
"Beginning Intermediate"
Muir
West Buttress
Lost World (& Squeeze Play)
Zodiac
Eagles Way
Tangerine Trip (& Virginia)
"Intermediate"
Muir
Aquarian
Never Never Land
For Your Eyes Only
Horse Chute (&Horse Play)
Mirage
Grape Race
New Dawn
Dawn Wall
North American
Son of Heart
Dihedral Wall
Shield
Magic Mushroom
Heart Route
Pacemaker
Sunkist
On the Waterfront
Heartland
Dorn Direct
New Jersey Turnpike
Excalibur
Cosmos
Tribal Rite
Pacific Ocean
"Harder Intermediates"
Aurora
Atlantic Ocean
Iron Hawk
Bad Seed
Waterfall Route
Chinese Water Torture
Lunar Eclipse
Shortest Straw
South Seas
Zenyatta Mondatta
Native Son
Lost in America
"Hard"
Genesis
The Real Nose
Bermuda Dunes
Wyoming Sheep Ranch
Sea of Dreams
Bad to the Bone
High Plains Dripper
Get Whacked
Pressure Cooker
Hole World
Scorched Earth
Space
Born Under A Bad Sign
Disorderly Conduct
Plastic Surgery Disaster
Surgeon General
Wings of Steel
Winds of Change
Kaos
Reticent
Tempest
Gulfstream
Jolly Roger
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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A motel in Hawthorne, Nevada.
Nice digs, by Hawthorne standards.
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
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I added Tribal between Cosmos and PO. Does that sound about right?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Yeah, I'd put 'er there, someplace.
Woot!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Calling any of the routes "easy" is a bit of a sandbag for someone who's never climbed it. (Or, if I were to believe it, someone who has.)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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There are a couple of unsolvable problems compiling a list like this in order of difficulty:
 one man's A4 is another man's A3
aid climbs generally become easier with more and more ascents
A lot of what I have to say regarding this is based on routes I climbed ten or more years ago. For instance, in 1998, Reticent Wall's penultimate crux pitch was a Real Live Death Pitch. There was nothing up there in the upper half to keep you from dying if you blew it. Now as I understand it, from recent ascensionists, there is pro, and it's pretty decent. For instance, Ammon took three whippers on it during his push ascent. You couldn't have done that in 1998 and lived to tell the tale.
Also, how the heck do you put a rating on an unrepeated climb? How hard *is* The Real Nose? Nobody has been back.
And then there is the "repeatability" aspect to consider. For example, Nightmare on California Street has fixed heads in enhanced placements on the first pitch, according to Kristoffer. [I have not been up there] How do you repeat such a climb? Get out your butterknife, butcher the hell out of the already enhanced placement, and put in a new head? Clip the fixed heads and hope for the best? Use a cheat stick?
And what about Wings of Steel? Certainly very hard, but is it repeatable? I am inclined to think "yes", but the first ascensionists were "too honest" in that they reported in great detail the slight enhancement of perhaps six to ten hook placements over eight or ten pitches. Water runs over these pitches, the hook placements which exist are marginal [i.e. insane, barely possible, etc] so how do you know if the ones they enhanced are still useable, or if twenty-five years of water erosion have smoothed them out too much to hook. We replaced the bolts and rivets on the first pitch or two, and I would love nothing more than for someone to go give it a go! I thought it was totally freakin' desperate.
Another thing is your state of mind. For instance, when I soloed Zenyatta, it seemed a bit hard to me. But when I soloed Shortest Straw, which is usually considered to be harder, it seemed much easier. Why? I was "in better form" on the latter.
Impetuousness of youth is another factor - when you are young, dumb, and full of cum, sometimes things that are truly sick might not seem so bad. I was about scared out of my mind soloing the free climbing up high on Iron Hawk, but I was beyond the point of no return, and with cracked ribs. How hard is it really? [You don't see many people up there] I can't really tell you.
How does free climbing factor into it, too? Routes that contain considerable amounts of it, like Jolly Roger, keep away the riff raff [like me, unless you bring a Rope Gun].
Erik - what makes you think Bad Seed, Waterfall Route and Chinese Water Torture are only hard intermediates? Do you know anything about them?
South Seas is really pretty mellow. Native Son [when I soloed it] was rather stiff. I used to be scared of AO Wall, but you say it's not too bad, so I guess I'll go climb it now. And if you were a fan of the late great Hoser Don Adams aka Maxwell Smart, you would know the correct spelling of KAOS.
Thanks, Erik. See you in a couple weeks, eh?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Rating el cap climbs by difficulty is kind of like rating celebs by hotness rating. Some people like those toothy wimmin. Yes pete, thats you. You like 'em toothy.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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It's all A1 until you fall.
Each ascent finds the route in different condition than the previous ascent.
Pieces get fixed. Placements get blown. Drilled hook holes get overgrown with munge.
That said,
Each ascent is an adventure.
Brutus, who might just hold the record for the slowest aid ascent of the Muir Wall, of Wyde
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Nanook,
Thanks for this thread.
Prod.
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More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
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Because of the free climbing, I'm not sure the Salathe should be listed as easy.
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
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Thanks everyone.
Pete--
I agree with you completely that rating are subjective, and the nature of aid routes tend to change with many ascents.
That was my idea with starting this thread. So people who maybe had preconceptions about certain routes could see where they fell within a grouping system, rather than a purely linear difficulty system.
Steve Gerberding did the Real Nose and told me it was hard. I think a couple europeans repeated it a couple years ago, no?
Hard is hard. Anything is repeatable to someone. I find a lot of people want to avoid the hardest most dangerous climbing so I think the grouping system might help to steer people toward which route is most appropriate for them.
A couple friends climbed Bad Seed(I did the first four and half once), couple friends did Waterfall route, don’t know anyone who did Chinese Water Torture.
Ultimately what a list like this probably means is a detailed delineation of what the gist of “beginning intermediate”, “intermediate”, ect. are. I just thought it would be fun to see how folks responded to the concept in a looser form.
Om great Le Cap
cheers
e
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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The toothbrush, incidentally, was invented in Arkansas.
Because, if invented anywhere else, would be called the "teethbrush".
Thank you, tip your waitress, I'll be here all week.
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Fogarty
climber
Back in time..
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Lost world? wow, HUGE sandbag rating, have you done this route, has it been climbed more than maybe 5 to 7 times? and what about whole world? I would like some response?
Mike Fogarty...
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Fogarty
climber
Back in time..
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what about LOST WORLD???
I went up in 1999 in OCT, I think the 2nd or 3rd was Walt & who was his partner ??? they replaced at each belay a 3/4 Bolt with a metolious hanger I was pleased to see next to the mank 30 year old crap bolts? has anyone else climbed that ANUS pitch?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Ask Nanook. I think he's been up there. You won't get a response from Tucker.
Maybe.
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Fogarty
climber
Back in time..
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Did Tucker do it with walt?
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