typical difference b/w redpoint and onsight abilities?

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Erik of Oakland

Gym climber

Oakland

Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 12, 2007 - 02:16am PT

setting goals for the upcoming season and want to be realistic. Is it typical for one's onsight ability to be a full numerical grade below the redpoint ability (e.g., Stu consistently on-sights 5.10b on gear but has red-pointed to 5.11b)?

Russ Walling

Social climber

Out on the sand.... man.....

Apr 12, 2007 - 02:28am PT

Do people redpoint gear routes these days?

MisterE

Social climber

RimDweller, AZ

Apr 12, 2007 - 02:40am PT

You s/b within a couple of letter grades, in a given comfortable rock type... IMO

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Apr 12, 2007 - 02:45am PT

Not sure, but they have by and large decided to wholesale apply the sport tactic of dogging to climbing on gear. I personally believe this is an incredibly bad idea. Every year now I hear of more and more accidents from folks repeatedly resting/falling on gear without checking it inbetween goes and then having it fail. You can tell they are of a [growing] mindset that you can simply treat gear no differently than bolts.

Karl Aguilar

climber

san francisco, ca

Apr 12, 2007 - 03:51am PT

"setting goals for the upcoming season and want to be realistic."

The standard rule of thumb is to redpoint a full number grade above your onsight level. However, that's a pretty weird guide. Your ability on different rock types and angles will often vary greatly. e.g. you might onsight a 12a steep juggy roof, but get spit off every 10a slab you try.

A good goal is to travel more. Climb as many different types of rock and climbs that you can. Your onsight and redpoint ability will improve quickly. If you want a goal, work on what you are worst at. In the end you will improve your overall skill set.

The great thing about grades is that they help us know what climbs are near our ability. They can guide us into which climbs we should attempt.
The problem with grades is that they are subjective and we tend to treat them as absolutes. It is too easy to get caught up in the numbers and get frustrated with slow progress.

Every year my climbing goals are the same: climb more. stay injury free. have a better attitude. remember to enjoy myself and those around me.

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Apr 12, 2007 - 10:27am PT

What's redpoint mean?

Wild Bill

climber

Apr 12, 2007 - 10:42am PT

Gary, I think 'redpoint' is like 'pinkpoint,' only darker.

Erik, post up some pics of your next climb. Oh, and how did that highball scrambling go a while back? I know you were real excited about rapping off your shoelaces or something.

TwistedCrank

climber

Hell

Apr 12, 2007 - 10:42am PT

What does onsight mean?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Apr 12, 2007 - 10:47am PT

who cares?

you walk up to a climb, you do from bottom to top clean... you can say "I climbed the route."

you hang, work the hard moves, fall, etc and get to the top... what do you say?
"I'll climb it clean next time"
"I worked it and got it in the end"
"I worked it, pulled the ropes and lead it (got the redpoint)"
"I climbed the route"

you hang, work the hard moves, fall but are unable to get to the top... then what?
"I got on the climb but bailed"
"I'm working the route"
"I climbed the route"

you walk up to the base of a bad ass climb, put your hand on the rock... ya?
"I scoped the route out"
"I'm working the route"
"I nearly climbed the route"

you looked in the guide book and gave the topo your best scrute...
"I'm scoping out the route"
"I'm working on my topo reading comphrension"
"I am so sending that route"
"I climbed the route, virtually"

When getting ready to spray about routes you have done, it is probably better not to pre-post questions regarding what an acceptable representation of "climbing a route" is....

...you know when you've done a route in good style (on sight, nothing but skin, rubber and rock from bottom to top) and when your style has not been so emaculate (red pointed, rehearsed, worked it, hang dogged, applied microbeta, stepped in a sling, french-freed, A0, etc)

depending on the route you probably will get a huge variation in response, style seems to be a mallable concept.

couchmaster

climber

Apr 12, 2007 - 10:56am PT

Where does a "Brownpoint" fit into all of this?

Wild Bill

climber

Apr 12, 2007 - 11:24am PT

I think a 'brownpoint' results from a scary 'redpoint' but I could be wrong.

scuffy b

climber

The town that Nature forgot to hate

Apr 12, 2007 - 11:29am PT

The hardest thing I have led at all is the same difficulty
rating as the hardest thing I climbed on sight.
Doesn't make sense? Well, what does these days?

wootles

climber

Gamma Quadrant

Apr 12, 2007 - 11:35am PT

Walk up to the climb, look at it, decide you can do it so why bother, tick it off in your guide book as complete with date and partner noted.

J. Werlin

climber

Cedaredge

Apr 12, 2007 - 11:52am PT

Redpoint, rotpunkt: to paint a red dot at the base of a route.

Alt: A brand of coffee/espresso maker in Germany.

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Apr 12, 2007 - 12:49pm PT

Cheese and crackers. I'm gonna have to take a month off and work on my jargon.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

one pass away from the big ditch

Apr 12, 2007 - 12:55pm PT

LNF
TRNF
OSLNF
OSTRNF
L1F, L2F, etc (hang, rest on gear, etc. = a 'fall' for these purposes

Flash is a dog from Dukes of Hazzard.

spyork

Social climber

Land of Green Stretchy People

Apr 12, 2007 - 01:08pm PT

I usually get to the top, wipe the blood off, and thank my lucky stars I'm still here. How did I get there? I don't care.
Pull on gear, step on partners, lieback OWs, anything goes.

If the days end and I'm not dead or in prison, its a bonus day! Time for a beer!

Matt

Trad climber

places you shouldn't talk about in polite company

Apr 12, 2007 - 01:31pm PT

setting goals for the upcoming season and want to be realistic

the question is why are you so wrapped up in the grade, and what has that got to do w/ the climb?

make it your "goal for the season" to become more interested in the quality of the climbs you get on, the style with which you climb them, and the partners you climb them with rather than the numbers associated with them in the guide book.

you will find that your climbing progresses in a direct relationship to the frequency with which you go climbing.