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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 6, 2007 - 01:03pm PT
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cia_leak_trial
Will he roll on Cheney?
Will he go to jail (sentencing is set for early June) and await a pardon?
Will anyone actually be accused of treason?
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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cause for celebratin with a 40 tonight.
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couchmaster
climber
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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"Will he roll on Cheney?
Will he go to jail (sentencing is set for early June) and await a pardon?
Will anyone actually be accused of treason? "
So predictable, it really doesn't take long for the hysterics on this site to get wound up, does it?
This whole "scandal" has never made any sense to me. Go back to root causes: How does it possibly discredit Joe Wilson that his wife works for the CIA? If not, then what is the motivation for what is supposedly the root crime for this whole affair?
What really depresses me is that there are so many people who abandon any sort of rational thought in the political process in favor of hate--whether they are the Bush bashers who think he is the Anti-Christ or the nut balls who thought Clinton was running drugs and having witnesses whacked. And because we are a republic my fate depends on these morons to exercise rational judgement in the voting booth. I think I need to start drinking again.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2007 - 02:01pm PT
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pappy- WTF?
make some sense, po-favo'?
if there is/was no "scandal", why would the chief of staff of the vice president of the united states of america be LYING to a grand jury?
do you remember when gW himself said that he wanted to get to the bottom of the leak, and that anyone in his administration who was involved would be fired? (and now it seems that cheney was at the heart of it all, if not gW himself?)
did you get the part where the CIA themselves reported directly to cheney/libby et. al. about the significant damage that would be cause by the outing of an active CIA agent?
did you get the part where the CIA themselves requested the investigation in the 1st place?
are you aware that v. plame was active in WMD counter proliferations at the CIA? and that exposing her as an agent endangered/screwed any and all assets that were associated in any way w/ the CIA front company that was also exposed when she was intentionally outed?
do you guys only get riled up when married guys lie about blowjobs?
did you or did you not support the impeachment of bill clinton?
not that this is in any way a tit for tat, but it's a very good demonstration of the hypocracy on the side of the rigtht when they claim THIS is a witch hunt (or not a scandal, as you have here), after being so interested in where billy put his cigars. what a f*#king joke.
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wildone
climber
Isolated in El Portal and loving it
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Well said, Matt.
Well said.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Wow, the conservative is defending the revelation of a *secret* operative's identity. What has the world come to?
There's some crazy political polarization going on in this here country.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
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judy- there is NO DEBATE that plame being exposed compromised multiple assets and in fact the entire CIA "front company" (called Brewster Jennings & Assoicates, google it to learn more if you are unfamiliar) that her work had been associated with. you are just parroting their talking points (same as always), and in doing so you demonstrate the general lack of critical reasoning that goes into your entire world view. thanks for posting that.
the wheels are coming off all around you pal-
can we get you another triple whip frapachino?
perhaps you would like to hear a waltz?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Fatty
Outing Plame also outed all the CIA front companies she worked for and all the agenst who used it. Not an insignificant exposure.
Drop in the bucket of Bush/Cheney crimes though
Peace
Karl
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Karl,
To further bolster your point Plame was working to help disarm/destroy clandestine nuclear programs.
Exactly what fatty wants done to Iran.
Oh the irony.
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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"pappy- WTF?
make some sense, po-favo'?
if there is/was no "scandal", why would the chief of staff of the vice president of the united states of america be LYING to a grand jury?
do you remember when gW himself said that he wanted to get to the bottom of the leak, and that anyone in his administration who was involved would be fired? (and now it seems that cheney was at the heart of it all, if not gW himself?)
did you get the part where the CIA themselves reported directly to cheney/libby et. al. about the significant damage that would be cause by the outing of an active CIA agent?
did you get the part where the CIA themselves requested the investigation in the 1st place?
are you aware that v. plame was active in WMD counter proliferations at the CIA? and that exposing her as an agent endangered/screwed any and all assets that were associated in any way w/ the CIA front company that was also exposed when she was intentionally outed?
do you guys only get riled up when married guys lie about blowjobs?
did you or did you not support the impeachment of bill clinton?
not that this is in any way a tit for tat, but it's a very good demonstration of the hypocracy on the side of the rigtht when they claim THIS is a witch hunt (or not a scandal, as you have here), after being so interested in where billy put his cigars. what a f*#king joke."
This is really funny. You people are so tied up in knots it's a wonder you don't choke yourself to death. "if there is/was no "scandal", why would the chief of staff of the vice president of the united states of america be LYING to a grand jury?" In other words, that Libby lied to the FBI proves that there was a scandal for which no one was charged by a special prosecuter specifically appointed to investigate this allegation. I think they call that circular reasoning. (this is the first I've heard that he lied to a grand jury, but I haven't paid that much attention to it so it could be true. I'll also accept that this jury was privy to facts that I'm not aware of and reached a true conviction on the merits and not on an agenda, it's just not worth arguing the point. However, I will point out that the only public figure I know lied to a grand jury on tape was Bill Clinton. But that clearly wasn't important. It was just sex after all.)
"(and now it seems that cheney was at the heart of it all, if not gW himself?)" Isn't that kind of a huge leap? Could you please supply the transcript from the trial that indicates how this verdict proves that these unidicted figures were at the heart of the crime?
"did you get the part where the CIA themselves reported directly to cheney/libby et. al. about the significant damage that would be cause by the outing of an active CIA agent?" Did I miss something, or haven't multiple sources, including Fitzgerald, confirmed that Richard Armitrage "outed" plame independently of the sinister Cheney/Libby cabal? If the CIA reported that to Cheney that this caused significant damage that proves exactly what? That whenever an executive receives a report of potential wrongdoing that they are ipso facto guilty of same? Guess we'd all damn well oughta shoot those messengers after all.
"are you aware that v. plame was active in WMD counter proliferations at the CIA? and that exposing her as an agent endangered/screwed any and all assets that were associated in any way w/ the CIA front company that was also exposed when she was intentionally outed?" No, I'm not aware of her duties and would be interested if you could supply a credible source. I'm afraid from this little exercise though, that I can't consider your word credible.
Look, guys, I don't doubt for a second that there is 7/24 backstabbing going on by all parties in the cesspool called Washington. I'm just telling you that as a disinterested observer you are going way over the top on this, and, as I pointed out to Matt above, this tends to discredit anything you might actually have to offer.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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The whole thing was a tempest in a teapot. Armitage was the guy that "outed " her. If she was undercover, why wasn't Armitage prosecuted? Probably because she wasn't so no crime was committed. What a waste of time. It will be interesting to see if Bush pardons him; Clinton showed the way.
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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AC, what a clever retort. I stand amazed at your concise dissection of my post.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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Papy,
It proves that the current administration is not trustworthy AT ALL.
They lied about WMD, they are lying about Iran, they lie about Israel, and now they got caught red-handed.
Ever hear about the "appearence of impropriety"?
Well this is it, not in appearance, but in fact.
Libby, Dick, 'W', et all are not concerned about this country, only their own ass, that they take turns penetrating with fattrad.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2007 - 03:23pm PT
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pappy-
if you have no interest in following along then you ought not to chime in at the end, implying that "there is nothing to see here". (IMO it makes you look foolish)
i am glad you won't take my word for it, saves me time in explaining it to you.
as to the "scandal" itself- the prosecutor's name is patrick fitzgerald. google that in creative ways and you can read his explanation (given at the press conference where he anounced the indictments) as to why there are perjury charges but no other charges- it's the perjury and obstruction that prevents the government from making the charge it wants to investigate- but in his reasoned explaination, the cause of justice is served by convicting on the perjury charge, and that fundamentally is the reason perjury a felony in our legal system. (clear enough?)
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Look, guys, I don't doubt for a second that there is 7/24 backstabbing going on by all parties in the cesspool called Washington
*chortle*...so why "stick up" for any of 'em...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2007 - 03:42pm PT
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that's the same argument people make against the theory of evolution, and fine, the correct answer to the question as you phrased it, is, "no, nothing is proven".
that said, it's the presumption that the guilty individual would not lie under oath to a sitting grand jury unless the motivation to do so was something worse than rolling the perjury dice. i for one will count that as pretty damn convincing, same as the ideas that fish crawled out of the sea, and plants at one time didn't have any flowers.
feel free to draw your own conclusions, but when you or your loved ones are sick, please avoid all science based efforts to cure your ailments, as they are developed by and with the very same principles (scientific method) that support evolution.
(clearly we are a mob-mentality driven society when it suits us, no?)
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2007 - 03:58pm PT
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here's some reassurance for those of you who choose to go thru' life w/ your heads up your..., err..., i mean. 'in the sand':
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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