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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 26, 2017 - 12:36am PT
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“I always wanted my stuff to be fun and safe,”
To each his own I suppose. I personally find it a wholly lamentable sentiment.
While many people question the safety of traditional gear...
The alternate facts of 'modern' climbing.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 26, 2017 - 05:55am PT
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I was invited in to join in to climb some of those new bolted climbs that weren't in the book last time down. Sport climbing isn't my thing but I'll confess right here that I had a ball.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jan 26, 2017 - 06:27am PT
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This year Roger Brown replaced 248 bolts on routes on Middle Cathedral, the Royal Arches area, and on Hall of Mirrors. Brown, a 67-year-old union carpenter who spends half his time working on scaffolding at nuclear power plants
Holy shit!
Funded by a small pension and Social Security, and supplied as well by the American Safe Climbing Association (ASCA), he began replacing bolts in Yosemite. Since then, Brown has swung the hammer approximately 4 million times, replacing 2,000 bolts across Yosemite.
Yosemite's John Henry. Has he ever got stuck? I hope he donates the bones in his swinging arm to the climber's museum, along with his hammer.
;)
Thanks for posting this article Bruce.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 08:39am PT
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To each his own I suppose. I personally find it a wholly lamentable sentiment.
I'm with you, Joe.
Even on the front page today we have a trip report in which the author "embraces" his placing of a chicken-bolt to avoid a "dodgy" hook, and ALL of the responses to the TR are "badass," "awesome," "way to go," and so on.
Overall a good TR, but "confessing your sins" on a TR doesn't magically make them go away, and, IMHO, it is never "badass" to place a chicken bolt. That TR is a case-study in how routes get drilled down to a lower and lower common denominator, and it doesn't take many "ascents" for it to happen.
But, I've grappled with and then embraced the quite apparent fact that many of today's "climbers" are risk-averse, despite their paradoxical desire to go try things that they clearly have no business on. After all, once they've "sportified" the route, it's "fun" and little to no risk. And that's what ALL "climbing" is supposed to be: FUN! Wowwww... "badass"! It's the way of the new world. Who am I to stand in the way of "progress"?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 09:18am PT
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leave the bold routes as they are, and give them respectful space
If they would strictly do that, then I would agree that there's room for both approaches. Far be it from me to tell anybody else how to climb. I mean that. But dumbing down existing routes is about the furthest thing from "badass" that is possible in "climbing".
Edit: Reading about Steve Wunsch on Jules Verne BITD really settled in my mind what "badass" was all about when it comes to freeing old aid routes. Forget retro-bolting... not even pitons were acceptable on that ascent. The bar of "badass" has dropped considerably.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 26, 2017 - 09:50am PT
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Thanks for the "recent" blog post!
I'd never heard of Growing Up before.
And that Dawn Wall project...exciting stuff!
And lol madbolter's use of quotation marks!
"climbers" and "climbing" lol!
Risk adverse, and little to no risk.
Sofa king hardcore you are!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 26, 2017 - 09:53am PT
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There was a time that you had to kill someone and lose a limb before you could be called badass. Time marches on.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 10:02am PT
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Sofa king hardcore you are!
I'm still gettin' it done; not all the parts have fallen off yet.
But it's not about me. The contrast here is between the placing of admitted chicken-bolts on existing routes and the likes of Steve Wunsch on the FFA of Jules Verne. The former is not "badass," while the latter is.
Most of this new bolting that gets done is pretty pathetic, imo. But, as I said, who am I to bag on the new "progress"?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 26, 2017 - 10:06am PT
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who am I to bag on the new "progress"?
Answer:
"no one"
:-)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 10:16am PT
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And you are...?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 26, 2017 - 10:17am PT
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Risk adverse
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Jan 26, 2017 - 10:18am PT
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at madbolter.. my comment on the recent TR was not regarding the bolt, it was the winter conditions and maybe this should have been clearer.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 26, 2017 - 11:48am PT
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Great point Kingtut!^^^ Quote: "The challenge is to not put yourself and your own climbing style at the center of the universe but to be tolerant of other's styles that do not affect your own or have excessive impact on the resource. There is enough hypocrisy to go around for everyone that climbs, I assure you. And try to simply realize that these are not the big problems of the world and just use a little moderation and live and let live."
Damn straight!!!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 01:56pm PT
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Damn straight!!!
Indeed.
So, these climbing threads should just go away. They don't matter AT ALL as long as there are starving children all around the world, including here in the USA.
Because there is hypocrisy, we should abandon (even talking about) standards. Because there is disagreement, there can in principle be no "better" or "worse". Because there are more important things to care about, we should bother talking about any of this climbing nonsense.
Got it. Carry on (or not).
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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I'm gonna bolt all the cracks at the Cookie Cliff.
No more of this stoopid expensive climbing gear.
All one will need is quick draws.
The Cookie Cliff will become great again .....
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2017 - 03:36pm PT
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I think they're free from ASCA ....... :-)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 03:46pm PT
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There's no "high council," and there's no "lecture".
There's only people, myself included, expressing our opinions. Yours seems to be "Nothing to see here, move along," in which case, go ahead and take your own advice: Move along.
Some of us do care that existing routes not be bolted down with chicken-bolts, and we'll express that opinion.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jan 26, 2017 - 04:17pm PT
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Surely you can agree that backing off committing hook moves (down hooking back to the belay) is not remotely easy and could end tragically.
There's the difference between us. The second you leave the ground, it "could end tragically." The climber in question did the hook moves, thereby increasing his chance that it "could end tragically." He simply reached a point at which he said, "I'm too strung out." But that's a mental game. He simply didn't want to play anymore.
IMO, you don't place a bolt until you've taken a fall, such as if a flake pulls. Just "not liking it" or calling it "dodgy" is lame.
So, fine, he lamely placed a chicken-bolt. But the story is not done. He should not have just left it, "confessed his sins" online, and called it good. From the higher anchor (or even a higher piece) he could have lowered down and removed/patched the bolt.
Just calling it good is why routes get increasingly dumbed down. One guy finds one spot at which he "doesn't want to play anymore." Another finds another such spot. Yet another finds another such spot. And the downward spiral continues. Next, we need an ADA-approved escalator bolted to what remains of the route, so that it can be "climbed" by anybody.
IMO, if you can't "buck up" enough to commit to the move, then at least commit to making it right (not just "confessing") later. Otherwise, what you are really confessing to is the very process by which routes get destroyed by the ever-lowering lowest common denominator that "feels" they'd like to "play" until they suddenly realize that they don't. When you can't be bothered to make it right, that has nothing to do with risk of it "ending tragically." Then it's nothing more than your personal convenience. Again, just lame.
Big wall climbing is climbing, which implies risk, so if you're risk-averse, then please stay off. Or, go back and make it right.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 26, 2017 - 04:37pm PT
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"We should bulldoze all the mountains down so we can all be safe."
Mark Wilford
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