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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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maby he aint as much of a scumbag as you think??? what if every last one of those guys that are anywhere near the front are juiceing and he was just not as good at hideing it??? It then boils down to the best cheater wins and if you don';t cheat you can't compete?
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Or maybe some French guy spiked his water bottle...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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As I understand it Radical, Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis do not get along, and if true then I doubt they are buddies.
While I admire Armstrong for what he has achieved (at least if it was achieved without cheating, and I have my doubts) and the health issues he has had to battle against, he has always seem like a jerk to me, not that I know him personally of course.
Another dig at the French. Perhaps it was a Spaniard as Oscar Pereiro stands to be crowned the winner should Landis be stripped of his title.
No wait, it’s a Euro plot. French laboratory, Spanish winner, commies under the bed. :-0
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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as corrupt as it all seems to be there is no reason not to suspect the labs of putting in a fix.
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bob d'antonio
climber
boulder, co
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And what advantage would taking synthetic testosterone give him??
I think he is clean.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Screw them.
Let's start the Tour d' Wyoming, where you can't compete unless you take steroids.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Of course the labs could have a fix in, but somehow it is more plausible that there is more likelihood that athletes such as cyclists nowadays would cheat rather than a lab deliberately fix the results.
I didn't know much of Landis at all as nowadays I really only follow the Tour de France with passing interest in the Giro d’Italia and Tour of Spain, so I really don’t know his background. But at 30, he sounds like he has been around.
Bob, if he was clean how did the synthetic testosterone enter his system? What about Justin Gatlin?
These excerpts from news story today:
…Gatlin, joint world record holder over 100m, has declared his innocence and according to his New York legal team, led by Cameron Myler, will prove it when he attends a United State Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) hearing probably next week.
Myler has not surprisingly disassociated Gatlin from comments made by the Olympic champion’s coach Trevor Graham, who claimed that Gatlin failed the test after unknowingly have testosterone cream rubbed deliberately into his legs by a massage therapist
The International Association of Athletics Federations today quickly dispelled hopes that this might be allowed as a plea in mitigation with a strong reply to Graham’s claims.
An IAAF spokesman said: “Whatever is found in an athlete’s body when tested, is his or her responsibility.
“We have been advising athletes for years of the strict liability policy and encouraged them to be very cautious when receiving any form of treatment.”…
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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I don't care if all these guys dope or not. They just need to learn the art of creating nail-biters. Remember that cartoon/movie The Incredibles, where the boy running a race and his dad tells him not to over do it, just barely win? That's what I'm saying. Why the need to be so f-ing spectacular all the time? It raises eyebrows.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Well I had this posted, but I get it was missed because the title was too technical...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=230807&f=0&b=0
Place your bets.
I am betting that not only do they discover he was using testosterone, but that he was covering it up with epi. Further, I am betting that he was not alone!
Though they might very well not go there. The answer to the question of whether t'one is being used and hidden by epi may be a question that they won't want to answer.
bod d' the short answer is muscle development. The long answer is that he was taking it over a long period of time. Not just that one day, where one would not expect any benefit. And he only got caught because for some reason, the epi got depleted.
My bet - total speculation, in this case.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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It doesn't look good for Landis, but this "report" is based on 'heresay' from a third party. Who cares what some guy thought he heard? Euro reporting read more like the Enquirer. Definitely not worthy of the all caps it gets in the title. These guys are just riding bikes anyway.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
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Definitely not worthy of the all caps it gets in the title.
I just copied and pasted. See title of linked article.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Ahh. I see. Boy, there licking their chops across the pond.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Ahh. I see. Boy, they're licking their chops across the pond.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Here's my question: Testosterone has no immediate effect on the body. You can't take it one day and have any hope whatsoever to feel anything the next day. Testosterone has to be taken over a period of weeks, if not months, to see any effect. Landis' previous tests from the same race showed no weird levels at all. So it kind of like the follow the money game--why would he have taken any testosterone if he couldn't expect an immediate boost from it. I think he was clean.
Mal
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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They call Championship Auto Racing "Man & Machine."
Soon, bike racing will be know as "Man & Doctor."
Sure anybody can dope. But you need the right Doc to time it right.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 02:19pm PT
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Testosterone has no immediate effect on the body. You can't take it one day and have any hope whatsoever to feel anything the next day. Testosterone has to be taken over a period of weeks, if not months, to see any effect.
Not that I trust the following character....
From: http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10613.0.html
Bottom half of the article:
Manzano: ‘Testosterone effects almost immediate'
Jesús Manzano, the ex-pro who revealed insider details of doping in a series of paid interviews two years ago, said that testosterone can be taken during competition and its effects can be felt "almost immediately."
In an article with his byline in the Spanish daily AS, Manzano outlined the way riders can take testosterone during a competition, undercutting the argument that testosterone is a substance taken over weeks and months to slowly build strength and resistance.
Manzano's interviews helped draw attention to controversial Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who is now at the center of an ongoing doping investigation in Spain.
"Its effects are felt almost immediately," Manzano wrote. "It gives you a lot of force and produces a sort of euphoria."
Manzano outlined three ways to take testosterone during a competition.
First are patches, called AndroGel, which are applied during a light massage usually during the evening mealtime. Manzano said the patches had to be used less than two hours to not risk going above the T/E ratio threshold and risking a positive doping test. Manzano also said clandestine suppositories are used as well as intravenous injections, called Rastandol, taking about 20 minutes to 1 hour before competition.
Another option are pills of Andriol, called "beans" in the cycling underworld - or "Ferrari's jellybeans" by some - but these usually take several days to kick in and he said it's not likely riders would use them during competition.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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I'm a bit confused here. Generally, testosterone is good for two things: 1) agression - no professional athlete needs help here. They wouldn't be here without a naturally healthy level of ambition 2) building muscle mass - tour de france cyclists do everything possible to *lose* upper body mass because it help not at all and they have to haul that sh#t around. ever seen photos of lance pre-cancer/TDF domination? He was huge (relatively speaking.) Much too big in the shoulders and chest to ever stand a chance in the TDF.
If cyclists are going to cheat, they'll just blood dope, which basically means they have blood drawn weeks in advance and re-inject it just before the event in order to raise their red blood cell count and thus their VO2MAX. This is basically totally undetectable unless your doctor's an idiot and gets caught with a bunch of bags of blood a la Ullrich and Basso. Of course, this horrible on your circulatory system, but that's besides the point.
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DavisGunkie
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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testosterone and other steroids will not give you muscles just by taking it. you still need to work out, if not you will just get fat from it. them taking it iss probably more for a recovery method then for actual boost.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Gunkie has the info. They are all doing it.I know local racers doing it(DUMB ASSES).All sports should follow the rules of bodybuilding(open class) anything goes, & a drug free division.rg
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