Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 4, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
|
Everything changed seventy years ago today in our war in the Pacific.
The Japanese went from offense to perpetual defense when a combination of luck and culture allowed the US to sink all four enemy carriers, but there was great valor displayed on both sides.
In one of the earlier unsuccessful waves fifteen US torpedo plane crews attacked without fighter cover.
All were shot down.
One man survived.
It would have been a different world if not for the bravery of these men.
Do you think climbers are tough?
|
|
beef supreme
climber
the west
|
|
Ron, good post. I think about this kinda thing all the time. Not only from the war perspective- like aviation back then with a compass and a huge set of balls for example (not to mention having people shooting at you), but also other things like people riding bikes to Nome in the winter during the gold rush, etc. People did all kinds of crazy sh#t back then; if people were doing the same things now they would just have to be sponsored by cliff bar or something for such feats.
I think that people were just way more hardcore back then. What happened? haha
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
The code breakers.
Garbled radio messages from recon aircraft.
Halsey ill, so Spruance gets the call.
The Japanese fleet divides into three battle groups.
Superhuman effort putting band aids on the Yorktown.
Nagumo's indecision and bad call.
Serendipity when the US air attacks simultaneously hit the Japanese carriers.
Spruance knowing when to call it good.
Amazing event. The turning point in the Pacific. Two months later Stalingrad starts. The beginning of the end for the Axis.
Thanks, Ron.
g
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2012 - 08:59pm PT
|
Gene obviously knows his stuff.
I like Victor Davis Hansen's account in Carnage And Culture.
One of the things that won the battle was our superior damage control capabilities.
|
|
Tobia
Social climber
Denial
|
|
Midway was tough. It never ceases to amaze me how much "dumb luck", chance and bad judgment figures into war history and outcome (not discounting bravery and sacrifice).
The Naval Battle during the Invasion of Leyte was as tough and as deadly. If not for some extreme bravery and heroics performed by some out-matched American Destroyers the Japanese could have easily wiped out the Invasion Force and Carriers. Mix in the "dumb luck", chance and poor decisions and you have another epic.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
Climbers aren't very tough. In the military "take" is not in the vocabulary.
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
Speaking of tough. How about Daniel Innouye:
(from wikipedia)
As he led his platoon in a flanking maneuver, three German machine guns opened fire from covered positions just 40 yards away, pinning his men to the ground. Inouye stood up to attack and was shot in the stomach; ignoring his wound, he proceeded to attack and destroy the first machine gun nest with hand grenades and fire from his M1 Thompson submachine gun. After being informed of the severity of his wound by his platoon sergeant, he refused treatment and rallied his men for an attack on the second machine gun position, which he also successfully destroyed before collapsing from blood loss.
As his squad distracted the third machine gunner, Inouye crawled toward the final bunker, eventually drawing within 10 yards. As he raised himself up and cocked his arm to throw his last grenade into the fighting position, a German inside fired a rifle grenade that struck him on the right elbow, severing most of his arm and leaving his own primed grenade reflexively "clenched in a fist that suddenly didn't belong to me anymore".[10] Inouye's horrified soldiers moved to his aid, but he shouted for them to keep back out of fear his severed fist would involuntarily relax and drop the grenade. As the German inside the bunker reloaded his rifle, Inouye managed to pry the live grenade from his useless right hand and transfer it to his left. As the German aimed his rifle to finish him off, Inouye managed at last to toss the grenade off-hand into the bunker and destroy it. He stumbled to his feet and continued forward, silencing the last German resistance with a one-handed burst from his Thompson before being wounded in the leg and tumbling unconscious to the bottom of the ridge. When he awoke to see the concerned men of his platoon hovering over him, his only comment before being carried away was to gruffly order them to return to their positions, since, as he pointed out, "nobody [had] called off the war!"[11]
|
|
Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
|
|
The Naval Battle during the Invasion of Leyte was as tough and as deadly.
The battle of Leyte Gulf is still the biggest naval battle in the history of the world. My father flew F6F Hellcats off the USS Enterprise in that fight--as part of the 75 combat missions he flew on his tour of duty with Air Group 20.
Curt
|
|
Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
|
|
In one of the earlier unsuccessful waves fifteen US torpedo plane crews attacked without fighter cover.
All were shot down.
One man survived.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
|
Well now we are bouncing all over the place. I was thinking about an anniversary of a most pivotal point.
But I gotta admit that Cragman makes a good recommend.
One of my favorite parts in Tin Can Sailors was Blue Archer becoming the first person to attack an 80,000 ton battleship with a .38 special.
Bet he put the plaid pajamas on for that one!
|
|
Tobia
Social climber
Denial
|
|
P Ron, I apologize for the thread drift. I just completed the Tin Can Sailors book a few days ago. I think you recommended it on some thread, possibly the what book thread.
Can you imagine what was going through George Gay's mind as he floating in the sea for those hours surrounded by all the enemy ships? His survival and rescue are miraculous.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
Admiral Nimitz --- The best of the best.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
|
Actually, Tobia, it was Woody who started the thread about the book which got me to read it.
Wasn't George Gay played by Eddie Albert Jr.?
His dad was a real hero of the war in the Pacific. As I recall he waded out in the coral at Tarawa and recovered many wounded men.
As Hollywood is want to do, they threw some imaginary characters into the greater story, but the film did a good job of depicting a complicated battle.
|
|
plund
Social climber
OD, MN
|
|
Compass & map over open water....all those guys (fliers AND sailors)had bowling balls...
I think Ensign Gay was quoted, in reply to a question re: treating his wounds, that he "soaked them in salt water for several hours"
What a f'in stud.
Curt -- I've checked out the website of your dad's squadron / group -- good stuff!!
Somewhat related (WWII) drift -- my sister's dad-in-law (RIP) flew the Burma Hump (157.5 round trips!), her hubby showed me a big plastic storage bin with ALL his maps, logbooks & mementos -- there's a currency strip (money from posts) that's signed by probably half the CNAC pilots -- WAY COOL!
|
|
Tobia
Social climber
Denial
|
|
Credit to Woody then, it was a great read. I read the Rising Sun prior to that.
The sacrifices the role players made in that war and all other wars is humbling. I feel good about picking up litter. I am not sure I am made of the same metal as these guys were and thankful that I may never have to find out; their gift to me and everyone else.
I have never seen a brass wrench before, Ron can you post a picture of it?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!