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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 27, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
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Just saw the ST ad and television spots for this - $18 a year on your vehicle registration and you get free admission to the state parks. Seems excessive - what if I don't go to said parks? Tax should be assessed on the user..... subject to voter approval!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 27, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
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If it was voluntary, I'd probably pay the 18 bucks.
But because nobody has the choice, I'm voting against it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 27, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
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Even if you never visit a park there is value in its maintenance and preservation. Parks aren't there just for visitation, but also preservation, which benefits all of us.
I think this is a questionable precedent, tying park funding to cars, but I'm voting yes anyway because I like parks.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 27, 2010 - 05:47pm PT
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Even if you never visit a park there is value in its maintenance and preservation. Parks aren't there just for visitation, but also preservation, which benefits all of us.
close lots of parks and what happens? Those people go to the parks that are open. Meaning that your favorite place just gets busier.
I haven't had the energy to look at this closely, but this is my reasoning.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 27, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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Man up you pussies. It is a worthy cause to pay for. $18.00 a year what's that less than $.05a day?
OMG Obama must be forcing socialism down your breathing hole. Oh the humanity.
We enlightened folks in the People's Republic of Boulder regularly vote to approve additional taxes for open space and parks. Guess what, it is one of the main reasons Boulder is so desireable and has such a valuable real estate market.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:01pm PT
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But see John, you're looking at the recreation/visitation benefits.
The benefits of parks go beyong that. There is value in ensuring historical sites are kept from decay, that habitat is protected, or patrols continue, or invasive species kept out. All that costs money and none of it directly has anything to do with recreation. Yet it benefits us all, preserves our human and natural heritage.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:02pm PT
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Shoa! Dude starts a poly thread?!?
The times they are a changin'.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
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$18 is cheaper than an annual parking pass to state parks...
Castle Rocks free entry? Henrey Coe free entry? One less ranger wasting away in a toll booth all day? Sign me up.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:12pm PT
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The cost of living is so reasonable in Cali (relative to the rest of the country) you guys shouldn't be bitching about $18.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
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If the state thinks they need $18 from each vehicle to run the parks, let them take it out of what we already pay.
I just registered my 17-year-old Toyota yesterday, and it cost me $30 more than last year. Bad time to ask for another twenty percent hike in registration fees.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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Chaz, why don't you stay home and roll around in all the money you save.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 27, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
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Oh, 18 whole damn dollars Waaaaaaaaaah, mommy.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
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Oct 27, 2010 - 07:13pm PT
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I see it as just another bait and switch. While the intenet is to fund the parks, there is nothing to prevent the legislature in Sacto from reassigning the current park funding to the General Fund. Net result: 18 more dollars our of my pocket and parks that are still underfunded. This is the problem with taxes that are disguised as fees.
This is the same as the previous sales tax increases for schools, the lottery (which has netted the schools $0), and the theft of highway funds by the Legislature.
IMHO, we should get rid of the entire initiative process. It is nothing more than a vehicle for special interests (and we are all special interests!) to push through legislation that no elected official would put their name on.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 27, 2010 - 08:00pm PT
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We enlightened folks in the People's Republic of Boulder regularly vote to approve additional taxes for open space and parks. Guess what, it is one of the main reasons Boulder is so desireable and has such a valuable real estate market.
I have to agree with Philo, Boulder has done such a good job preserving open space and parks that real estate in the city is exorbitantly expensive -> no poor (and few middle class) people. Nice!
(One minor complaint: you can't climb in much of said parks for half the year, and you need "backcountry" permits to enter much them anytime.)
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Oct 27, 2010 - 08:40pm PT
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no poor (and few middle class) people. Nice!
Not exactly true. The largest percentage of Boulder residents are highly educated middle class.
The same group that took the big rectal raping from Bush policies. They are a big reason that Boulder helped swing Colorado and the nation to an Obama victory. You're welcome.
There are also quite a few poor. Nobody notices them though as they are preoccupied with complaining about those who suffer from affluenza.
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Flanders!
Trad climber
June Lake, CA
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Oct 27, 2010 - 09:35pm PT
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Vote No on this one! Sacramento wastes most of the money it takes. Don't be foolish to
think they will use this money any more wisely than they have in the past
VOTE NO
Doug
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
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Just got back to this thread .... you're right Kelly - I don't start political threads as a rule. This issue can be considered on topic as our state parks do contain some climbing. The tax disguised as fee issue is what bugs me. California is in economic dire straits! New blanket taxes are not the solution. Pictures of fox pups,waterfalls, dogs and babies with no mention of the cost is spurious. Maybe that ad money might be better spent in voluntary donations. If this thing passes my 18$ won't even pay for one hour of outhouse maintenence!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Oct 28, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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Sup Aldude. Long time no see. I miss drinking $18 worth of coffee with you at the Looney Bean.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 28, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
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They waste shitloads of money. And then try to hold the public hostage with "we'll close them down". How about less staff, less new vehicles, less $3000 "interpretive signs" and then we'll start talking about fees.
No on 21.
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