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DeepGlue
Trad climber
Albany, NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 18, 2010 - 11:24am PT
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So I'll probably have to get a new car in the next year or so, and I'm trying to decide what I should go for. Basically this comes down to deciding between gas mileage and AWD. This means Prius/Insight, Outback, or Element. I'm looking to spend about the same on whatever I get, and will just go further back in model year if I have to. With that in mind, I'm not too worried about the back-end of the car's life - that'll be determined by my driving and maintenance more than anything else. Room to sleep in is another small issue. I live in the Northeast but might move out West someday. I rock climb a lot (duh), and I'm starting to break into winter sports (ice, downhill skiing/boarding). I'm 6'0".
I also considered a Fit/Matrix/Mazda3 hatchback, but they have even less room, worse gas mileage than a Prius, and I'm sure similar performance on rough/slippery roads.
On gas mileage: Obviously more is better. The cars listed above would range from $950 - $1800 - $2050 per year for me.
On sleeping: The Prius and the Outback have about the same room, while the Element would be slightly easier and better. Is that worth the extra $250/yr in gas over the Outback?
On AWD vs. 2WD: I don't care at all about AWD for urban driving. I get stuck in street snow maybe twice a year, usually out of stupidity, and this is not worth an extra $800/yr in gas to fix. I'm only thinking about rough rough roads and getting to trailheads in winter. For rough rough roads, AWD really doesn't offer much over 2WD, compared to a real 4x4. For trailheads in winter though, I can see an advantage. However, as I just start to get into winter pursuits I'm not sure how often this will be an issue.
So, please help! What are your opinions and experiences regarding all this crap? Thanks, all.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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AWD is really the way to go IF you use it. If you drive in muddy or snowy conditions, AWD is great. The savings grace as I see it is with AWD you don't really need to buy snow tires(on most rigs), so that is a big savings on extra tire expense and hassle factor getting them changed back and forth every year.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 18, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Prius is a great car, but if you plan to keep it much beyond the factory powertrain warranty I'd highly recommend you get the factory service agreement(Toyota X Care). You can get up to 8yr./125,000 coverage.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 12:02pm PT
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I had considered getting a Westie Synchro but decided on a 2wd instead...
my consideration had to do with evaluating what kind of driving I was doing the most... and realizing that I didn't really need the 4wd. The times I'm up in the snow are also rather sparse, so using chains (as DMT said, they're required in Cali) was not a big hassle. I needed a highway approach vehicle with sleep in capability...
the clearance of the vehicle gets me in and out if I'm careful...
also on costs to fix and maintain the vehicle, which were considerably more for the Synchro, not to mention the 30% hit on mpg
do the math
quod erat demonstrandum
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DeepGlue
Trad climber
Albany, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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Wow, that's a lot of replies pretty fast! Yeah at this point I've definitely nixed the possibility of an Element, especially since this fix will work in any car with fold-flat rear seats.
As for AWD, seems like snow tires and/or chains will get me most of the way there for snow and mud. They really aren't that much trouble to mess with a couple times a year, compared to spending $800 more each year on gas. So I'm really leaning towards a Prius/Insight. Maybe I can hold out for a hybrid Fit though...
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:00pm PT
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I teach skiing at Timberline, and the Oregon DOT is horrible. My Outback gets me up snow and ice beautifully. I would like a little better gas mileage since I put on over 20,000 miles per year. However, I like driving forest roads under all conditions to catch the best skiing, climbing, and fun possible. When OR and SW WA were at a standstill 2 years ago with a snowfall, I got to work - 80 miles round trip - on back roads and unplowed interstates. Only a handfull of people got into the office as most waited for solar removal of snow.
The East does a better job on snow removal.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:06pm PT
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gas is a budget killer.
the prius, when dead empty takes 22 dollars to fill the 8 gallon tank, at $2.75 dollars per gallon. plus that 8 gallons goes and goes and goes on and on.
i cant imagine coughing up a 50 spot each time i stop for gas.
i live at 3000 feet (often snows) and frequent higher elevations in winter. we bought a pair of spider spikes chains (swiss made i think) for our prius and chaining up is a breeze. rarely can i not go where i desire.
go with the prius. no brainer, as gas will only get more expensive.
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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I've heard the new CVT tranny avail for the Outbacks gets well over 30mpg (even tho sticker only claims 20-something). I've always driven 5-speed, but it might be time to accept technology :-P
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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JETTA TDI WAGON.
I am not lying to you. I just moved from the bay area back to Montana, and with the wagon COMPLETELY loaded down, driving between 70-80 mph, I averaged 516 miles out of my 12 gallon tanks. I got mine, a 2003 with 70 000 miles on the clock, for 11k.
I couldn't be happier.
edit: for the math impaired, that's roughly 43 mpg.
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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WILDONE, that's a picture of my car. Was wondering why the OP didn't consider it. I normally get 38 mpg in mixed town commuting, mid-40's on the highway with a max of 47 mpg for a full tank, but I drive aggressively and rarely rarely drive below 80 mph on the highway. TDI's are all about mpg + torque, very fun to drive. Prius, not so much.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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I have a high clearance two wheel drive (large) van. Live in San Fran area. Maybe twice a year I have to put on chains (ski trips). With those new stiff cable gizmos and a competent passenger it takes less than three minutes. Not worth the bucks for AWD (neither the purchase price nor the gas) for me though if I lived in snow country I'd sing a different song.
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DeepGlue
Trad climber
Albany, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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A Jetta wagon has occurred to me. Didn't know they were quite that good, but seems like the Prius still gives it stiff competition. It's just better MPG vs. better looks IMO :)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 18, 2010 - 03:05pm PT
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MPG, unless you're an avid skier living under the yoke of Chain law, like in Kaliphoneya
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Aug 18, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
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...profit on the burnin shore,
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SeanH
climber
San Mateo, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
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TDI...DO IT.
I just picked up my TDI jetta wagon Monday night from the dealer. Gave up my fast, awd car for it. Paired with a stick, it's still a blast to drive, and torquey, for a car that gets 50mpg. I can easily sleep in it, and see the stars through the huge moonroof. Will hold tons of gear no problem.
Much better than driving the weird, super sluggish (especially on hills) prius, with its interior that looks like Dr. Evil designed it to be quasi-futuristic. And, I'm presuming you're a climber, so you will be driving in hilly territory....good luck on Old Priest with a prius (I'm sure some owner will tell me it makes it, but I doubt it does it well.)
Anyway, go test drive one. Best of both worlds. And if you don't need the wagon, get the Golf, or sedan.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Aug 18, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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I expect much higher gas prices.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:29pm PT
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As most of you know by now, I live on a ranch in rural Wyoming. Having an AWD is just not optional for me. We have 4 vehicles, all of them are either 4-WD or my Jeep Commander, which is AWD. The manner in which the vehicles are driven, and the terrain has a lot to do with the fuel economy, in addition to city/highway driving. Also, the wind has a big impact on performance at the fuel pump here in Wyoming.
My driveway alone, would tear the living $hit out of a Prius. I've had my Commander for 4 years, and the maintenence expense has been very low in comparison to the 4-WD pickups. Mine is a V-6, and not the Hemi option, so I get decent fuel economy of 18-22 mpg with seating capacity for 7 adults, or a hefty load of animal feed, camping gear, or my rack.
One must evaluate how the vehicle will be used and make the decision on that alone. For me, reliability and go-anywhere capability outweighs fuel economy.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
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Ahhh personal preference,
my old climbing partner and I went many places most people got stuck, in his Triumph TR6. Except for the rarest roadslick conditions the driver determines much more about getting there than does the awd, and clearance is at least as much a consideration as how many drive wheels are on the ground. I drove 170K in a toyota tundra 2wd, and took it places many would not take a 4x4.... well at least not the crazy ones.
but, there is the milage of the prius, or for much less money but much less room, the Yaris, which was my choice of late: 80 mph with the air on, 36mpg, drive like granny on the road, 41mpg...
so of course, instead of saving the money, i have gone more places!
in the last six weeks: Yosemite, red rocks, tahoe, Kings canyon and sequoia.
the 4 by will make you feel like you can get there, but the high mileage may mean you can afford to go.
4x4 insurance is also higher, check with your carrier.
still remember Rick Carlson's tiny honda,
the license plate: BIVYSAC
BUT!!! if you want go anywhere capability, get an FJ cruiser, or a Tundra with a shell. Turns out, when you are way the crap out there in the saline valley, or wherever, you want to also get back! i had one prob with my tundra, a recalled part, in 170 thousand miles,
I also owned a GMC YUKON Denali at the same time, 54K pricetag, awd, big engine, all the bells GM could offer, worst car i ever owned, more repairs in the first six months and 7000 miles than i had in the last 700,000 miles driving toyotas. my soon to be x wanted it, and she got it, along with all the trips to the dealer. and jeeps are 4.3 times more likely to be breaking down. Ford? toyota is built, just the body mind you, with 13times the precision. blah blah.
get a prius or a PT cruiser
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