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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
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I'm actually pretty amazed if not stunned at most folks' perceptions of hip belaying.
With the rope below your waist / hip bones (i.e. on your actual hips), and with the addition of a single non-locking biner on the harness front for the side of the rope going to the climber, hip belaying is absolute as rock solid as any device. Perceptions to the contrary are entirely a matter of a lack of competence in this method of belay.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 21, 2010 - 07:45pm PT
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In some ways it's safer, like when you're bringing up a second who's moving fast.
Everyone should know how to hip-belay. If for nothing else, it's a great way to get in the habit of keeping your brake hand on the rope.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 21, 2010 - 07:45pm PT
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You're so right. I hip belayed for the first 15 years or so and held some pretty long leader falls easily. I still use it on easy ground where the rope is moving out or in fast.
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WBraun
climber
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May 21, 2010 - 07:50pm PT
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Yeah we all did that cave man sh'it and got away with murder.
It's now the 21st century and we belay off the front bumper of our cars now.
Put it in reverse and gas it for reeling em in on those long whippers ......
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 21, 2010 - 07:53pm PT
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We wouldn't have gotten away with murder, given the number of falls we took, if it hadn't been a good viable system.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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May 21, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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What is amazing is that climbers still get dropped when using modern belay devices including a grigri.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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May 21, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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Good 'ole Werner ;)
Sure it's cave man but...
are there YOSAR members that are not completely experienced/competent with a hip belay?
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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May 21, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
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Just be sure you are wearing a shirt when you catch a fall with a hip belay. Rope burns suck.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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May 21, 2010 - 08:29pm PT
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Thanks, Werner!
It's all very clear now: "Step on the gas and wipe that tear away."
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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May 21, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
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My ass got saved by a hip belay once. I was climbing a typical run-out high angle slab in Oklahoma when I skated off. The bolt was a long way down and the ground wasn't much further below that bolt. Luckily, I was being very competently hip-belayed by The Man, Duane Raleigh, who reeled in a bunch of slack with amazing lightning speed and caught me just above painville. If he had been using a belay device I would have spent weeks in traction, or worse...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2010 - 08:47pm PT
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The perception that it isn't "a real belay" combined with an antipathy and cluelessness around passive pro leaves me with the impression aspects of our 'modern' climbing scene have devolved into the kind of glossy, hyper-simplicitic alternate reality where Darwin and Murphy have a field day when enough glib generalities line up.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
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Just be sure you are wearing a shirt when you catch a fall with a hip belay. Rope burns suck.
That's part of the deal - the rope should never be up on your waist where a shirt matters. The rope should be down on your hips where so long as you're wearing pants you'll be fine.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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May 21, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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But wait a minute...
Isn't this the old man's forum.
The crusty, rusty old geezer's hang out?
Where's 'Scary larry' when yah need'm?
Cave men who grew up hip belaying (myself included) take it for granted.
But perhaps some of the non hip to hip belay people might get something out of discussion.
As lame a thread as it might seem, here's some of my thoughts.
...it's a great way to get in the habit of keeping your brake hand on the rope.
Yeah I have been seeing a lot of new to the sport, climbers that make me wonder. Is it a chicken and egg question? I see people belaying a second with a GriGri or ATC in guide mode and their brake hands are all over the place.
Are they that sloppy because they have a locking devise or because they didn't learn to pick their nose, scratch their butt or whatever with the guide hand?
~~~~~~~~
Something else I notice:
a. belaying a leader, rope going up, belay line under the butt cheeks and belayer's anchor/tie in.
b. Belaying a second, rope going down to second, belay line around hips and over belayer's anchor/tie in.
Ok just take those as a general rule.
I notice people that have practical experience (have actually caught falls) seem to do this as second nature.
The opposite, belayer for a lead climber with rope over the anchor/tie in (or none as in leaving the ground), and/or no biner on the harness and the rope above the waist in the small of the back...
Ru'uhrow 4 dat leader!
Re: my general rule b.
Unless necessary I won't belay a second with a sitting hip belay.
Or at least belay in such a way that the rope isn't going to the second, between your legs.
A second who is good size, falls and the rope wants to cheese slice your leg...
Figured that one out real fast.
I will usually stand, rope going up through the anchor(like belaying a leader). If I do belay a second with a sitting hip belay I clove a biner into my anchor/tie in at such a distance that it barely keeps the rope off my back but takes the bulk of the load.
Not only does that keep belayer body parts from getting pinned but the angle over the biner has enough friction to make a significant difference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ok...?
can we get back to talking about the worth of knowing how to build biner brakes ?
TB chuckles and goes muttering off to help Cozmic unload.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2010 - 09:17pm PT
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I think springs now dominate climbing and shape the perception that climbing cannot really be done without them.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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May 21, 2010 - 09:28pm PT
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healyje:
why do I get the impression that you don't climb...
no shirt, beanie and every bit of your gear on your harness?
Were all Gunna die!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
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Trundle, I definitely gave up climbing the moment broadband Internet came on line, what type of idiot do you take me for?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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May 21, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
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Let's hear it!
Hip Hip Belay
Hip Hip Belay
Now, where did I stash my sliderule?
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R.B.
Trad climber
Western Slope of the Cascades
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May 21, 2010 - 10:06pm PT
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i caught a five gallon bucket full of concrete when i was about 7 years old ... with a classic hip belay, it was dropped about 10 feet before the "goldline" would stop stretching. The rope slid under my butt and I caught the rope with the backs of my knees. I got a rope burn that hurt like crazy. But from that point forward, my Dad never worried IF i could catch an adult ...
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 21, 2010 - 10:17pm PT
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Don't know I posted this one before or not.
Mant years ago I was climbing in the Garden of the Gods. Along comes Brian Becker. I was belaying him with a hip belay when one of his friends slaps a sticht plate on my harness and clips him into that. Problem is, it was not a harness, just a chalk bag belt, tied with a loose overhand knot. While all the gagglers were watching him climb, I cut the rig loose and went back to the hip belay.
Well, Brian gets to the anchor and it is time to lower. I still have the rope burns. And memory.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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May 21, 2010 - 10:38pm PT
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Dropping a partner is Knott an option....Anyone who has dropped someone, I will Knott climb with. The Belayer's main purpose in life is to hold the rope If and when the Leader makes an error. There never can be any doubt that the belayer will hold the fall, .I've been doing this gig since 78' and have Hip belayed, Salewa (Ugly ducklings belay,) Stich belay plates,Munter Mule hitches,Eight ring belays,ATC's up to currently petzels gig.... You never drop the leader, there are No options. If you ever drop the leader you should get out of climbing....(after being drug behind a pickup for a mile.)
The rope burns you get from a hip belay are badges of courage you get from doing what you had to.
A hip belay on moderate ground from experienced climbers is bomber. You probably wouldn't want to catch Dano jumping off Mettallica(50'+) at cave though.......ATC or a Reverso would be recommended.
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