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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 11, 2015 - 10:35am PT
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Mt. Sill is tall and a long approach. Have fun, but don't take it lightly.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Jun 11, 2015 - 10:35am PT
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I really recommend an ultralight axe and some ultralight crampons if going up there. You really hate to have a few ounces ruin your objective or have you end up as one of the hundreds of "Slip and Fall on Ice: Unprepared for Conditions" accidents in ANAM. Things can go from awesome to tragic really quick out there and its nice to know you are "battle ready" when on your approach and descent.
I LOVE my tiny little Corsa Ice Ax from Camp. Its really small....too short for standard glacier use but is awesome in my right hand when on a steep snowfield like the one's yall will be on. It's maybe a foot and a half long. Worth every penny and stays in my small pack most of the time. A lifesaver though. Be an alpinist. Not a rock climber who ends up in the hospital cause he wasn't ready to be in the big mountains.
Have a blast. That's gonna be a fantastic trip.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://www.sagetosummit.com/camp-corsa-ice-axe.html
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2015 - 10:57am PT
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Murf: I was looking at either the Contact or the Neve (seems like an aluminum version of the Contact).
(1) For the types of things we're talking about here, I don't think the difference between SS and aluminum is likely to be a factor.
(2) 250g less
(3) If I need something more sophisticated in the future, it's likely to be more sophisticated than the contact, too.
Sound right?
Micronut: The Camp Corsa does indeed look like a great lightweight axe and would surely be useful.
Regarding the traverse being a big bite. I recognize that. Part of what I'm trying to explore is whether we can bite it off in a way where we have fun whether we succeed or fail.
If we stick to Temple and Swiss Arete, it sounds like we can probably do without them but the more cautious amongst you would still encourage us to bring them (or would advise us not to go without them).
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 11, 2015 - 10:57am PT
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Certainly the folks here who have said that you’ll be fine without an axe and light crampons are correct. That said, I can think of several times I’ve done Sierra trips with partners who insisted we go super light, and not take these basic alpine tools. No one died, but getting sketched or having to take long detours to avoid terrain which could be easily traversed with these light tools eats up a lot of time and energy. Just my .02.
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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Is there somewhere between SFO and Bishop that is recommended for renting crampons/axe?
Of the four of us, two are committed to doing more alpine stuff - spending $300 on an axe and crampons is not a big deal for us (nor the carrying). For the other two, they might not use this gear again. Having something less ultralight, but not such a big investment, would probably suit them more.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Jun 11, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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In your shoes I'd hike up the NF ( "You mean this isn't the SF sir?" )
You could probably get a walk up permit. Lots of reservation cancellations, too, more than likely.
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10b4me
Social climber
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Jun 11, 2015 - 11:17am PT
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Is there somewhere between SFO and Bishop that is recommended for renting crampons/axe?
REI used to rent crampons, and axes. Not sure if they still do.
Of the four of us, two are committed to doing more alpine stuff - spending $300 on an axe and crampons is not a big deal for us (nor the carrying). For the other two, they might not use this gear again. Having something less ultralight, but not such a big investment, would probably suit them more.
fyi, if two of you are committed to do more alpine climbing, I might go with a more durable chromoly axe, as opposed to an aluminum one. my .02, but ymmv.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 11, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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Katoola (sp?) microspike crampons and a BD pro raven axe = less than $200
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 11, 2015 - 11:28am PT
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Ditto on the delays from climbing with someone who wanted to save weight by not bringing crampons. Hiked all the way up to Matterhorn Peak with someone who thought he could do the whole thing in running shoes. Ended up bagging it because he was so slow traversing the snowfields at the base.
Also, if you're wed on doing the Swiss Arete, do the traverse south to north and start up it rather than climbing some nondescript route on Thunderbolt. I'm trying to talk a buddy into doing the traverse the same way.
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 07:35am PT
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Alright, thanks for all of the excellent and insightful replies.
We might skip the traverse for this time.
In the best case, it seems like an axe and some crampons could minimize the faff, even for Temple Crag and Swiss Arete. I'll probably pick up a pair of BD Contact and a Camp Corsa Nanotech. I'll encourage my companions to consider those or the less expensive Camp Stalker crampons and Camp Neve axe.
Logic for the Contact crampons vs. the aluminum Neve is that the Neve don't seem suitable for coming down an icy contact pass (likely mixed rock & ice) or moving up a late summer glacier that could possibly be hard ice. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Logic for the Corsa Nanotech vs. the plain Corsa is mainly that the former is available in Canada.
I'll be sure to send a TR when it's all said and done. Thanks!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 12, 2015 - 07:45am PT
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With any luck Doug Robinson will chime in.
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Jun 12, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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Hi Erik . Did you read Doug Robinson's Alpinist48 Palisades article ? I wonder if it will increase interest & visits . John Fischer told me that he asked Allen Steck & Steve Roper not to include any Palisades routes in their Fifty Classic Climbs of North America because he worried about the impact. On page 290, ,John is photographed climbing the Southwest Face of Clyde Minaret .When he & I climbed that route ,we bivid at the base of the route & saw a line of headlamps on the trail before sunrise heading our way . Have a great trip !
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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Guy,
You're not a downer, thanks for reading this far. That kind of feedback is definitely why I'm writing here. On the other hand, I'm an analytical person in general, so obsessing over details is something I do as a general practice.
We have a pretty objective attitude - we will be in the mountains for a few days and we're going to try some climbs. If something doesn't feel right, we're not beholden to the plans.
Upon reflection, the traverse is definitely out for us. The east-side base requires technique we don't have, and the west side requires an arduous camp move for an objective probably out of our range when lots of other more realistic things are nearby.
Swiss Arete, Venusian Blind, Moon Goddess, Sun Ribbon.
The first three seem within our reach for sure in terms of technical rock difficulty, speed, endurance. We have to work on some things (simul technique) but we have some weekends set aside to perfect those, with the goal of getting equivalent footage (involves lapping the biggest wall we have out here 2-3 times). Sun Ribbon, I'm not sure, we have to see how the others go.
You seem to be implying that appoaching/descending those routes requires honed mountaineering skills. We don't have those (although we've done some guided ice climbing). I don't get the same sense from the other commenters here, but maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see. What I read, here, in ST, and in various trip reports, is that an axe/crampons can be handy for approaching those climbs, in the limit (after dark) can be very useful for descending them, but not that there is any technical ascent on snow or ice. For the descent of Sill, we might have to posthole across a snowfield and should probably avoid doing that in the dark.
Definitely not trying to argue with good and generous advice. Only to reconcile the different expert points of view here.
Thanks,
Erik
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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JerryA: Yes we did, although the (two weeks in total) trip was already in the works before that. You are correct that the article influenced us to include Temple Crag in the objectives.
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10b4me
Social climber
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Jun 12, 2015 - 09:01am PT
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I have climbed the Swiss Arête twice. The first time, finding the descent was a little tricky.
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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Guy,
I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to the ice stuff. This is not meant to be an ice/snow trip, and if it is destined to be one, it's the wrong objective because we don't have those skills. That being said, I'm aware that these approaches/descents, in that season, fall in a grey area and how much of a factor that is is what I was trying to sound out here.
I think we got it in our minds that the traverse could be a stretch objective if we do exceptionally well on the others. That's a big if, and the answer is probably no. For the others, those objectives in that order seem like a good way to test ourselves without over extending.
I do hope to get out there again in the future with a lot more knowledge, experience, and confidence.
Thanks for your thoughtful response and encouragement,
Erik
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 12, 2015 - 09:45am PT
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I like the way you are approaching this trip. Good assessment of skill level, conditioning and climbing conditions in determining objectives.
If more people approached their trips this way there would be more happy outcomes.
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erikwright
Trad climber
Ottawa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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donini: That's a humbling compliment coming from you, and one I aspire to live up to.
Guy: TR promised.
Everyone: Thanks again. I know enough to know I've just tapped into some amazing mountain wisdom and I'm very grateful for your attention.
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CCT
Trad climber
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Jun 12, 2015 - 10:32am PT
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All those climbs are more about route-finding and risk assessment than technical ability. I'm glad that you dropped the Thunderbolt-Sill Traverse - it's not really practical with an inexperienced group of 4 (I know, I tried and failed, then came back and nailed it with a dialed partner). If part of your party is strong enough, you will know after Sill. And don't be afraid to plan to bivy on the route. There's no hurry anyway, and you can easily melt snow for water.
If there is any snow left in August, bring one ice axe for the approach to the Temple Crag routes. You can drop a rope and belay up anyone else who needs help.
Wear your helmets! Temple Crag is loose.
Plan for long days - I recommend those lightweight space blanket bivy sacks. You probably won't need them, but if you do they're well worth it.
Have fun out there!
EDIT: Escape options to East off of Thunderbolt-Sill ridge are generally not great if you aren't familiar with the terrain. In a typical retreat situation, you are tired, hungry, dehydrated, and it's getting dark. Maybe there's a storm too. If you know the way up, getting down is easy. If you don't, there may be some significant route finding challenges, including rappels with loose rock and into potentially icy gullies. In my opinion, it's best to plan not to retreat, and instead bivy in a sheltered spot on the ridge.
Ditto for Temple Crag. You can retreat into those gullies, but they are rockfall magnets. If anything other than injury is turning you back, it's safer to spend the night on the arete and finish up in the morning.
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