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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 15, 2008 - 10:33pm PT
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5-10 points...where was this McCain earlier? Quit being nice and call them like you see them?
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 15, 2008 - 10:38pm PT
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 15, 2008 - 10:38pm PT
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"5-10 points...where was this McCain earlier? Quit being nice and call them like you see them?"
The proof will be in the numbers. I doubt anybody but true believers will see it as you do,.
Peace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 15, 2008 - 10:42pm PT
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That's where you're wrong, Karl.
People were wondering when the real McCain would show. He pussyfooted with the niceguy routine thinking he'd get votes. Bad call. American people want a no-bullshit ass-kicker, especially now.
They saw that tonight.
He'll get a conservative bump, an independant bump, and maybe even some libs who saw the fear and hesitation in Obama. He got called out and lost...
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Oct 15, 2008 - 10:42pm PT
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Dang it all,
It's not Joe Plumber,
It's:
!!!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 16, 2008 - 12:19am PT
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"He'll get a conservative bump, an independant bump, and maybe even some libs who saw the fear and hesitation in Obama. He got called out and lost..."
I think, when the polls reveal whether there is a bump or not, whomever is mistaken should take a look at the denial feedback loop that keeps that mistaken one (either you or I) thinking everybody in the worlds thinks like us.
Maybe you're right. Here a clip showing Obama looking scared while McCain looks presidential
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EASpPlcVbdI
peace
Karl
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 16, 2008 - 12:22am PT
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http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
Post debate interview with Joe the Plumber
In response to being asked if he makes more than $250k a year:
"Well no but who knows if Obama will just decide to do it if you make more than $100k a year or even lower."
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Oct 16, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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BUMP...JOE's TAXES UNDER OBAMA
I just did some quick math, probably wrong, but as far as I can tell, If Joe the Plumber makes $250,000, he will pay ~$4,000 more under Obama than the current tax bracket. Joe says he won't or can't buy the plumbing company under Obama's plan. Really? $4,000 is a deal breaker? Seems a little shortsighted to me, but money is money.
I do think Obama/Biden are stupid talking about raising taxes from the current 33% rate to 39% under Obama's plan for income over $250K. I guess they are playing the #'s and hope the middle class come through for them Nov. 4th.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 16, 2008 - 01:35pm PT
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Why is raising taxes that little bit for rich folks stupid?
First of all $250K is damn good income. I'd be surprised if there were very many on this forum that make that kind of money. I get paid pretty well, and feel like I have a fair amount of disposable income, but it's still alot less than that.
Second, a 39% top tax rate is still way less than what it has been historically. I just don't buy the argument that taxing them a little more somehow discourages the well-off from working hard. If one looks back at say the 1950's when our country had very good growth, top marginal taxes were double what they are now. And yet I don't see alot of people remebering that period badly from an economic perspective. Nor do I buy any arguments about trickle-down by making rich folks richer. There is little evidence this works.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 16, 2008 - 01:38pm PT
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"People were wondering when the real McCain would show. He pussyfooted with the niceguy routine thinking he'd get votes. Bad call. American people want a no-bullshit ass-kicker, especially now.
They saw that tonight. "
Ummm... Yeah, that's totally what I saw - a real maverick... HAHAHAHA NOT!!! I saw a guy trying to kiss the ass of American's to beg for their vote, who's answer to everything was "Joe the Plumber"... 'Cause he had no answers... Pathetic, really. He came across more as a whiner and a dick than a hard-ass holding his ground. What a putz.
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Dolomite
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Not only does "Joe the Plumber" not make $250,000 a year, turns out his name is not even Joe. I wonder if he's even a plumber.
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poop_tube
Big Wall climber
33° 45' N 117° 52' W
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
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Ski season is almost here! I'm thinking some lightweight tools and aluminum crampons to go fast
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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good old joe has two issues beyond the "mere" $4000 in taxes...first, the 250k mark is arbitrary and can be adjusted anytime at obama's will...who says he won't suddenly decide that 225k is the new rich...or 200k...or...you get joe's point
the second issue is obama's straight up admission that he wants to "spread around" joe's "wealth"...why should anyone pay a higher tax rate? why, as joe says, punish success? if joe works hard and builds a company that employs 20 plumbers, why should he pay a higher tax rate than his employees who have the same opportunity to go out and start their own company but choose not to? as joe says, that's socialism
the potential for economic stagnation (think carter) is obvious...growing a small company is difficult enough so why would anyone try knowing the government is going to demand more of their money?
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
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"good old joe has two issues beyond the "mere" $4000 in taxes...first, the 250k mark is arbitrary and can be adjusted anytime at obama's will...who says he won't suddenly decide that 225k is the new rich...or 200k...or...you get joe's point "
Duh. Any politician can move around any proposed rate for anything so long as they get congressional approval.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:32pm PT
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no bookworm is absolutely right. Obama is basically an unknown factor and it seems pretty likely that he'll simply just change that to everyone who makes more than $100k or $50k if that's what he needs to fully socialize the government.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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Paying your taxes is not "punishment", it is your fricking civic duty.
Taking overspending dumbass politicians out back into a dark alley for some "quality time" is also your civic duty.
If we learn nothing else from our economic present mess, it's that running your life on credit and spending more than you make (or collect) is a dangerous approach.
Cut out the subsidies on established industires (farms, oil, tabacco).
Use careful and targetted tariffs to smooth the ebb and flow of developing (and predatory) new econmoies on the worlds stage.
Push as much control and decision making as is reasonable back to the state level.
But above all, spend less than you collect!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
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It appears that the real Joe is not actually licensed as a plumber or contractor, nor does he belong to the union he claims on his Facebook page.
He does owe some back taxes, but misunderstands Obama's proposal and would stand to save money, not lose it.
And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher’s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 — and not his taxable income — then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama’s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp
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poop_tube
Big Wall climber
33° 45' N 117° 52' W
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Oct 16, 2008 - 02:38pm PT
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It's gonna be a good season, I just know it! Fresh powder! scratching frosted rocks with my tools, skating on the edges of my crampons, YES!
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