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Smoke
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 6, 2008 - 05:12pm PT
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I was at Red rocks this past week and had quite a time managing twin ropes. I managed to coil them neatly over my neck at hanging belays but they always seemed to get coiled, kinked, and wrapped around each other while belaying. So my question is what is the best possible way to manage twin ropes at a hanging belay? Thanks.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I gave up on twin/double ropes once I got to the point where many of the routes I had no longer had big belay ledges.
One option is to stuff both ropes at the same time into a rope bag. This worked well as far as avoiding tangles but it can be slow and tedious.
You can also try flaking the ropes back and forth across a sling that is connected from your harness to the anchor. Quicker, but more likely to tangle.
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J. Werlin
climber
Cedaredge
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You must have one strong neck there, mate.
I've had good luck laying some looong loops over my knee.
Been climbing on twins quite a bit the last few years and can't think of any real frustrating moments.
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Smoke
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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A strong neck indeed. I even have rope burn on my neck to prove it!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Coil them over the rope or teather that connects you to the belay. Make suer that you shake out 15 or 20 ft extra and let it hang down so that it runs straight into the belay device which will eliminate twisting and short ropeing the leader.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The standard method is to flake over the belay tie-in. Tangling is prevented by making the loops progressively shorter (assuming you are swinging leads). To do this with ease while belaying, it helps if the first loops are pretty long, hanging down ten or fifteen feet, giving you leeway to make shorter loops without having to have each shortened loop very nearly the size of the previous loop.
Many climbers will snicker, but I have found the Metolius rope hooks to be very convenient for this. I don't use them for cragging, but for climbs of several to many pitches, especially in Red Rock where you simply must manage the ropes effectively, they make rope stacking as easy and tangle-free as it can possibly be.
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Robb
Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
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At a hanging belay? Let 'em hang -it improves the leaders conditioning.
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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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ohhh dear.
The best way to mange your doubles in the mountains or hanging belays is to coil one over your sack - which is hanging left or right of the belay - and/or the other/both using Marlinspike hitches to a quick-draw.
The Marlinspike method is a real art but by far the best in high winds. The key is getting the length of the loop of rope you are tying to be less than the length that came before it, otherwise the loops can get tangled when the leader climbs the next pitch. If you obey this rule then the tangle will never be a huge problem.
The best way to set this up is to belay for a bit then tie a Marlinspike and clip it to the biner, then belay a bit more until the loop is just about the same length (but shorter) and repeat a new Marlinspike and clip it to the biner. At the end all the rope is on the biner/s with Marlinspikes and it will release again in the reverse order it was put onto the biners which is the correct order for swinging leads.
You can have two running at the same time, one for each rope.
The Marlinspike hitch is a quick release loop which can be tied with one hand and clipped to the anchor. They are released again in the reverse order and undone with one hand. There is no screwing around while your mate is leading. You can always use this for both ropes on separate draws, I do this if I have no bag or the situation means that it’s below me.
This method is good because it stops the ropes from going away in the wind which is true of all thinner ropes and keeps the station contained to prevent clusterf*#kage.
It’s not a good idea to coil the rope over the anchor or yourself incase you need to move, because you are getting cold or need to pee or…... Also keeping left and right lines separate prevent problems when the leader climbs on. This is very important you must never coil both ropes in the same heap, it may work once or twice but if you are moving around (too keep warm etc etc) then they will tangle eventually.
The other important point about not coiling over the anchor is stopping the whole mess from sliding into your crotch and not only blocking the belay plate but getting all messed up.
You could use rope bags but I don't carry extra crap with me on routes.
Extra care must be taken in high winds to make the coils small and also be very aware of where the ropes and lying relative to where the second will climb past. I.e. if he is climbing on the right then the ropes hang on the left.
Double or twin rope management is art. If you can get it dialled then it’s no hassle at all. If you can’t get it it’s a nightmare.
Rob, sorry multi repost due to very bad spelling and gammer
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Do you really mean that using twin rope technique, as in, two little ropes clipped and fed as one, you had a lot of trouble, or do you mean you had trouble with doubles?
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