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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 25, 2005 - 09:02am PT
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Tenent told Cheney. Cheney told Libby. This according to Libby's own "notes to file." This contradicts his grand jury testimony of where he first learned of Wilson's identity as a CIA operative.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Oct 25, 2005 - 09:06am PT
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Rule 6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure provide that the prosecutor, grand jurors, and the grand jury stenographer are prohibited from disclosing what happened before the grand jury, unless ordered to do so in a judicial proceeding.
So how do you know what he said?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 25, 2005 - 09:10am PT
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Fred (or is it TradIsGood) that is a good point and if I were a conspiracy freak, which I am definitely not, I'd be curious if there was a leak somewhere that led to the whole investigation collapsing with nobody charged in the end.
Anyway, it looks like Rove sneaked out of this one too. Clever dick, he.
Edit
This from today's Irish Times:
"A military (option) is always the last choice of a president," Bush told Al Arabiya television in an interview aired on Tuesday when asked about a UN investigation report that implicated Syrian officials in Mr Hariri's murder.
Does he really think any sane and objective person will believe that going into Iraq was a last choice option.
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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2005 - 09:11am PT
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I learned about it from the front page of this morning NY Times.
I got the facts from the Times. The indictments speculation is my own.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Oct 25, 2005 - 09:24am PT
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So if you have the "facts", then who violated the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. In a grand jury, you have people who are prohibited from saying what was said, and the witness. Now the witness could say anything about it afterward, which would certainly not qualify as fact. ("I said I said" is not factual with respect to the testimony.)
For that matter, even "He said", is not factual with respect to the testimony.
And the "New York Times said" clearly does not make it factual either. Not that there are not a lot of people that believe that everything they read in the NYT is fact. :)
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Oct 25, 2005 - 09:32am PT
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HEY! I just heard the same thing on FOX news! Without a doubt this is 100% fact (coming from the most reputable news source on the planet!)
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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2005 - 12:29pm PT
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Yo Tradis
He, he. Why don't you try making your argument to the Times' lawyers. And the Fox news lawyers. And Reuters' lawyers. By tomorrow, you can make your aguement to every law department in every news outlet. You'll be a busy boy. He, he, he.
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WoodyS
Trad climber
Riverside
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:41pm PT
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I think I'll just wait and see-- an unusual approach I know.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:41pm PT
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The pre-spin has already begun with conservatives coming out on talk shows talking about how they hope that if there are any indictments they are for 'real crimes' and not 'silly technicalities.' I guess 'perjury' isn't a 'real crime these days. Reminds me of the last time the Democrats trumped up some BS charges against officials in the White House back in the late 90's. They had to get that Clinton guy on stupid technicalities too. Can't those dumb Democrats *ever* accuse someone of a real crime?
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:43pm PT
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Martha makes nice towels and pretty plates. These guys fux with sh#t for, as best as I can tell, revenge. There is no comparison.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:47pm PT
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Fatty-
Not before her stock price dropped and all kinds of things. She paid a dear price for a couple years. Same thing with Clinton. The same people who loved him then love him now, but he was virtually crippled while it was all happening. Indictments would mean another in a series of blows that the President has been taking as of late. When Martha was accused she was a very trusted and popular person. This is coming at about the absolute lowest possible point in the Presidency. While his numbers probably won't drop any lower, simply because about 36-38% of the electorate would support the President even if he killed a baby on the White House lawn, things like this could certainly prevent the numbers from rebounding.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:47pm PT
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" Martha makes nice towels and pretty plates."
Ha ha ha ha ha too funny, nature, good to see you back here.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:53pm PT
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Werner - thanks.
Spin - numbers rebounding? LoL. I can't imagine how that could happen.
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Hootervillian
climber
Ascuagas, Jacks Valley
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Oct 25, 2005 - 12:57pm PT
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Since no one watches the 'ocho'-
Libby, Rove, minutia.
"Who Told Dick Cheney?"
"...What sweet irony! Dick Cheney had a hand in pushing the "nepotism" charge, you know, Joe Wilson only got the job because his wife hired him. Since Dick got his daughter a sweetheart deal at State Department he should not be out casting such stones or encouraging others to do so."
http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/24/222813/22
Fitzgerald, the prosecuter formally known as Prince..."i'm not gonna stop..till I get to the top...baby"
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Oct 25, 2005 - 01:03pm PT
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Kim. Nice troll with the "grand jury" fact thing, and the art. Good stuff. LMAO.
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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2005 - 01:04pm PT
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"Who told Cheney?"
According to Libby's notes, DCI Tenent told Cheney. Tenent would know who worked for him.
Link to NY Times: only good for the day.
Yanked on request. ;-)
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Hootervillian
climber
Ascuagas, Jacks Valley
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Oct 25, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
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"Although the NY Times story reports that Libby's notes indicate that George Tenet told Cheney about Plame, there are some intriguing unanswered questions. For starters it is highly unlikely that George Tenet showed up at the White House and just happened to know the name of Valerie Plame. Someone at the White House asked for it first. Tenet clearly came prepared to respond to a White House request. I'm sure the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, knows who called CIA to ask the question.
I also doubt that Tenet used the name "Plame". Since Valerie married Joe Wilson she went by the name, Valerie Wilson. Someone introduced "Plame" into the equation."
once again-
"Tenet clearly came prepared to respond to a White House request."
nytimes links, bad format, fup the thread.
Ed. "Tenent told Cheney. Cheney told Libby..." and they told two friends and they told two friends and so on and so on...
We agree. Just, 'who asked Tenet'?
Ed.d. Fattrad?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Oct 25, 2005 - 02:00pm PT
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"I urged McCain to use the "coke" story on Bush, but McCain and my friend Dan Schnur wanted to play it clean. "
And look where that got ya. Repubs are to good at the negative game. How is Mcain's illegitimate black child by the way? Hope she is holding up and ready for another Presidential race.
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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2005 - 02:21pm PT
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'Who asked Tenet'?
Have you been reading Frank Rich? I assume it was the WHIG trying to keep things on track for war. But the thing I don't understand is how they thought outing his wife would discredit Wilson? That just doesn't track.
The thing that burns me most is that these Chicken Hawks, who've never served, are so willing to abandon the solder on the front lines. Wilson was a solder until she got outed. Today marks 2000 dead service men and women in Iraq. This administration never gave them the armor they needed or the manpower they needed to defend themselves. This is all completely disgraceful.
The only justice is that these guys go to jail first before going to hell.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 25, 2005 - 02:25pm PT
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Kim, I read somewhere (from a link on ST, I think) that the death toll would be much higher if it wasn't for modern medicine. Many of these unfortunate troops have been spared death but will have humongous disabilities and what about their quality of life?
Whatever happened to that Iraqi boy (one of many) who had his arms blown off? Remember the 'naplam girl' from Vietnam. I believe she went on to be a medical doctor. Images such as those two (as well as people jumping out of the Twin Towers)should be enough for any sane human being to abhor war and violence.
Onward Christian soldiers. JC must be turning in his grave.
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